Eye On Horror
Eye On Horror
Companion Editors Brett W. Bachman and Josh Ethier
This week, the boys are joined by the editors of Companion: Brett W. Bachman and Josh Ethier! We talk about the tone shifts in the movie, keeping secrets, coming back from strikes, working with Drew Hancock, being friends, and how Drag Me to Hell played a major role in their lives! We also talk with Brett about the rom-com slasher Heart Eyes, and of course Correia couldn't let Josh go without talking about Orphan: First Kill.
But before that, the boys dive into the twisted world of Oz Perkins's The Monkey! It's all new on EYE ON HORROR!
Movies mentioned in the episode:
https://letterboxd.com/correianbbq/list/eye-on-horror-podcast-sn-8-ep-3/
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Welcome to Eye On Horror, the official podcast of eye horror.com this is episode 143 otherwise known as season eight. Episode Three. I'm your host, James Jay Edwards, and with me, as always, is your other host, Jacob Davison, how you doing? Jacob, doing
Jacob Davidson:fine. Not much new to report on, but gotta say, it's only February. Been a pretty good year for horror.
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, I'm pretty impressed. Well, we'll get to that in a second, but first also joining us is your other other host, Jon Correia, how you doing Korea? We almost started the episode
Jonathan Correia:without you about to say, I know I've been reading a book about conspiracies, but I felt one here just now. The
James Jay Edwards:big release right now is The Monkey.
Jonathan Correia:The Monkey.
James Jay Edwards:Have we all seen the monkey? Oh
Jacob Davidson:yeah, oh yeah.
James Jay Edwards:What you guys think?
Jacob Davidson:Oh man, I love The Monkey. It's just an interesting blend too, because it's an Osgood Perkins movie just coming off of the success and rep from Longlegs, and it's based off of Stephen King short story, and it's from neon and, yeah, it's a load of fun, because it's basically about these two brothers who get this like kind of creepy toy monkey that plays the drums, and every time it plays a drum, somebody dies horribly, usually somebody connected to them, and which makes for some very good set pieces involving very elaborate and gory deaths that are also hilarious.
James Jay Edwards:It's very Final Destination in the deaths that and they just get crazier and crazier as you go. But my thing was, it was not the movie I expected to be, um, knowing, it's a Stephen King adaptation. Now it is the loosest of Stephen King. I mean, it's, it's one step above The Lawnmower Man, as far as King at because, because there is a monkey that when you, when you crank it, someone dies. And that's about where the the similarities end. But this one, it's even a different kind of monkey, the the monkey and the king one, I think, is a symbol playing monkey, and this one plays like a snare drum. Yeah, yeah.
Jacob Davidson:A funny story about that. Apparently they couldn't use the symbol playing monkey because Disney put a copyright on symbol playing monkeys because there was one in Toy Story. That's
Jonathan Correia:why that sounds about, right? No,
Jacob Davidson:I'm dead serious. That's
James Jay Edwards:ridiculous, because symbol playing monkeys were out way before anyway, but um, it, the thing is, I was expecting it to be more of a straight horror movie, so it was not what I expected. But it, it is way more of a comedy than a horror movie like it. It is hysterical. This movie and and, like, like, Jacob saying, even the deaths, you're cracking up the whole time because they're so like, like, the very first scene has this death where it's set in motion by a rat on a shelf, and it's like a freaking Rube Goldberg machine. Oh, my God, the it's hysterical, though, so much fun.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah, it's all the deaths were very Looney Tunes meets Final Destination.
James Jay Edwards:They just kept getting more and more so like the kid in the backseat of the car. So
Jonathan Correia:I, I always it's one of those movies where I left and I'm like, I the confidence that the movie has. Because sometimes there's movies where it's like, we're going to do something very weird with the tone that, with the characters motivations, with everything, and we're going to play it as straight as possible. And the confidence that's behind it is just all over the pages, like, it's hilarious, but also is like a deep meditation on grief. There's a few characters in it that have motivations that, once the motivation is revealed, it's like, that's the stupidest motivation I've ever heard. But it makes sense because of just like, the amount of grief that is because it is a funny movie, but the meditation on death and death of loved ones is profoundly deep. So which is such an interesting mix between the because it's in between these, like we said, Looney Tunes meets Final Destination deaths and it it all works. And I think Theo James playing the two brothers is incredible. Oh, yeah, especially since, you know he, if he comes off of, like, White Lotus and The Gentleman, where he's, you know, he really shines as that attractive dude, and here he's just weird, like, in every sense and senses that you don't even know. Yeah,
Jacob Davidson:both characters are losers in their own ways. So. He's, like, really playing up being just just kind of like an unattractive person, and
James Jay Edwards:they're so different too. Like, I mean, we haven't had a portrayal of twins like this since the Dark Half, you know, like, oh yeah. I mean, it was actually very dark half esque, and also in the way that it was shot towards the end, but, um, Correia, you'll love this. I had the word they didn't screen it for press, so I had to actually go to a paid screening. And I had the worst audience ever worth that. No, I'm just saying you'll appreciate not love
Jonathan Correia:Oh, because it's the first time that you had a bad audience and I had a good audience.
James Jay Edwards:Maybe, Dave, you had a good audience, one but two people texting for the entire movie, one of them right in front of me, and the one right in front of me. Also, every time the monkey would get get the keyspun to kill someone, she would start playing a drum in front of me. You know, like playing air drums. I'm like, Are you guys really? Anyway, it made me appreciate press screenings even more. But because this is The Monkey is usually, this is the kind of movie that you think would be more fun with an audience. But my audience sucked see.
Jonathan Correia:We went and saw it at an AMC. But Osgood Perkins was doing a Q and A tour around the AMCs in LA that opening weekend. And so we went to one of the screenings where he did a Q and A after and he was joined with Tatiana Maslany, who is incredible in this movie. I mean, no, yes, no one's gonna doubt that Tatiana Maslany wasn't gonna fucking slay it in this movie, because she is a God. If you've ever seen Orphan Black, yeah, I thought she was great in She Hulk. Oh, she was fantastic, and she Hulk. But Orphan Black, she plays like 17 different characters. Oh, yeah, yeah. All done. Well, I always forget what her actual accent is, because she has like a bajillion accents in that show, but she I, and that's the thing too. And I was really stoked, because we're big fans of her, and that they that she joined with the Q and A as well, because her her and her character really tie that movie together. Like that opening scene is so over the top and, like, kind of ridiculous, and then it's mostly flashback to when the twins are kids, and with the mom and the and Tatiana Maslany and her character set the tone so well, of like, what's happening here, because she's weird, she's funny. She's also very deep in what she's saying, but also has this, like, does weird things with her face that, like, just work really well. And I think without her, I don't think the movie would have worked that, because she sets the tone perfectly and set and it's because of her everything sets off. So, yeah, it's, again, it's one of those things where it's like, she should be getting awards, but it's, it's horror So, and it's early in the year, so we'll see. But yeah, no, the I loved The Monkey. It was great. Love the promo they're doing of just like the giant monkeys and theaters around here. Oh yeah, and I did not get the popcorn bucket. Now, it seemed like a like a step. That's
James Jay Edwards:what I was about to ask, did you get with those popcorn buckets? It's a pretty cool popcorn bucket. It's a
Jonathan Correia:really cool popcorn bucket, but I don't have the space. That's what
James Jay Edwards:made me think you get it. You're a popcorn bucket fanatic.
Jonathan Correia:I only have, like, three or four. I just have the alien one, the sarcophagus, and, like, you get the Ghostbusters one. I got one of the Ghostbusters ones, but it's Slimer. He's holding all my
Jacob Davidson:I got the Ghost Trap one. Oh, you got the Ghost Trap one. That's dope. Yeah. Though, speaking of audiences, I was lucky enough to go to the the Beyond Fest pre screening last month, and that was a great crowd for it. And actually related to that, you can actually see me in the commercial for The Monkey or, you know, like on Instagram and stuff where they do those audience reactions, like you can see, see me with like a shock expression on the on the Instagram post, because, you know, they recorded the audience while we were watching the movie. Is
Jonathan Correia:this going to be another fucking Nickelodeon?
James Jay Edwards:Does it say as seen in Nickelodeons, as seen on Nickelodeon? Dude,
Jacob Davidson:you can go to the neon page and look at like, the audience reactions video. It's right there. I can even text it to you. I feel like
Jonathan Correia:I'm like Charlie Day and fucking it's always sunny with the whiteboard and
Jacob Davidson:Sylvia. Pepe Sylvia, Sylvia, Pepe Sylvia, no.
Jonathan Correia:Jacob says he was in the video game Nickelodeon show, but I see it. I was watching all the episodes. I watched the April 24 1996 episode, and he wasn't in that one. No, no, no. One.
James Jay Edwards:No, no, no, no. I think we just have the wrong show title. I think that it's probably something else that Jacob's misremembering the title on. I
Jacob Davidson:might have an answer on that actually, like I was talking with my folks the other day, and it was, you know, we were visiting around Christmas. So I might have. Just been like a promotional thing they were doing for tours, and like a promotion for, I think it was Sonic and Knuckles, so I may not have been televised. It may have just been a thing they were doing for the holidays as a promo thing. It was a goose chase.
Jonathan Correia:How can I ever trust you again?
James Jay Edwards:And now let's bring in our guests for the episode. We're real excited about this one. We have got the editors of Companion, which is one of our favorites of the year, Brett W. Bachman and Josh Ethier. How you guys doing? Hey, doing good, doing well, awesome. Thanks for being here. I always like to start off with kind of the origin story. How'd you guys get started doing what you're doing? And have all have you always wanted to work in horror? Let's start with you. Brett,
Brett W. Bachman:horror was a bit of a I suppose, a recent discovery for me. I had grown up being involved with learning the essence of filmmaking on my family's mini DV camera. Got into college, got really involved with the sketch comedy community there, and really I was volunteering our college TV station, doing anything film or TV related. Upon graduating, knew I wanted to be serious about this, and figured I would have to find my way to New York or to Los Angeles. Got into the American Film Institute. Spent a great two and a half years there, and it was around this time that I had come up on a few horror comedies, mostly like Sam Raimi. But like I had avoided almost all horror growing up, I was just I hated the sensation of being frightened, and I had been reading a lot about his new movie Dragg Me to Hell, and we have a service at the school where you can check out DVDs. And I grabbed it, I took it home. I had a great time with it, but the ending of that film completely blew my socks off, like I had no idea it was coming. I remember feeling astonished and really creeped out, and I couldn't shake this feeling for like three days. I couldn't shake this sense of nihilism and dread. And I realized, like, there's something to this. This is like a really powerful emotion that I've been kind of neglecting, and the the act of being scared and being tense, and how to build that it was I realized there was an entire, entire tool kit of things that I could do as a storyteller that I've never really engaged with before, and a sensation that I've there's something to this. This is a core part of being human that I've been neglecting for such a long time that was kind of the genesis for
James Jay Edwards:me. Oh, cool. How about you, Josh. I,
Josh Ethier:when I, when I was in high school, I was, I was obsessed with, like, heavy metal and all this other stuff. So I would just sit in my room and I would play guitar and I would record music. And then when I was in freshman year of high school, actually met Joe Begos, who's still a friend of mine, and we still make films together. And Joe loved using a camera and hated sitting in front of a computer. And because I had a background in music and sort of experimenting with sound and all this stuff I was kind of aware of, like, watching something just like on repeat for, you know, a period of time. So I started editing his stuff, and just realized I fell in love with it. And this is when I was, like, 15 years old. So I used to just spend, like, all of my lunches in high school, like I'm, you know, IMDb, like reading all the trivia for whatever movies I was watching, and trying to watch as much as I could. And obviously we were just, we would go to horror conventions. We were obsessed with horror movies. My entire left arm is just horror tattoos. It's like, even before we were making movies, we were, we were obsessed with it, and we wanted to be a part of it. And that's actually really funny. We moved, we moved to LA when we were 21 together and had like a, like a one bedroom apartment in the in the valley, and I slept on the couch. And one of the first things that we did when we got here, actually the first day we were here, we bought tickets for it when we were leaving Rhode Island, and we drove across country like three straight days to get here for that 70 millimeter screening of The Fly with Cronenberg and Howard Shore at the cinemaradome in 2008 and then we were, like a Best Buy. Like, a week later, you know, we had finally gotten our power on in our apartment and our internet and everything. So we're over like a Best Buy, like, looking through blu rays, and some guy walked up to us with a messenger bag, and he was like, Hey, do you guys, guys like horror movies? And it was like, weird, because, you know, you would assume it's like, he's trying to sell his drugs or something, just like you like, horror movies. Like, opened up his bag and he had, like, invites too, which is hilarious, Drag Me to Hell. And he's like, You guys want to come see the new SAM Raimi horror movie? We're like, hell yeah, of course we do. So we got to go to like, a test screening of that. And, you know, it's just experiences like that. Living here in LA we started to work with, like, you know, Adam green and Joe Lynch, and Joe was working for Stuart Gordon, which was incredible. I was working for an editor named Ed marks, and we were just steeped in it. We weren't making any money. We were still holding regular jobs, but we were, you know, thankfully, like, a small ancillary part of the community. And then we decided, you know, fuck it. We have to make it's gonna
Brett W. Bachman:kind of like you and I, I think, have a very we started, like, at the exact same time. I.
Josh Ethier:Yeah, Brett and I have always been running in parallel. And that's, you know, when he worked on when he worked on Mandy, for instance, I was a huge, huge fan of that movie, as I mentioned, I love heavy metal. I love downers, I love slow cinema. I love all of the things that, you know, that Panos was doing in that movie, and I just absolutely fell in love with it. And Brett had also worked with Adam Mortimer, who I'd worked with on his first film. Some Kind of Hate, Brett had cut Daniel Isn't Real. And so at one of Adam's house parties, I met Brett, and I was like, oh my god, I love that movie. And we just started, like, trading like, temp scores, and every once in a while, going to grab a beer, and just became buddies. And it was cool, because usually you would assume the two guys that are, you know, working in the same world and going after similar jobs, there would be some sort of animosity, and they're like, just, isn't he's he's just, like, one of the, one of my best friends. He's just a wonderful guy. And a chance to work with him on this was awesome, you know. And I hope at some point it gets to happen. That's
James Jay Edwards:was my next question, are you guys, is this first time you've worked together in
Brett W. Bachman:an official capacity, yeah. I mean, we've been the horror community, especially post production. Horror community feels like it's relatively small, and we've seen each other at, you know, test screenings, and you know, each other's giving notes on each other's movies for years, but yeah, first time, like an official capacity, on the same movie.
James Jay Edwards:I'm a big proponent of I don't believe in competition so much as encouragement. So it makes me happy that you guys, you know you might be going for the same jobs, but you still lift each other up. Because I, I don't know I'm, I'm more about support than competing anyway,
Brett W. Bachman:yeah, man, it's, it's difficult out there. Need each other to hold each other up. Oh, yeah, absolutely,
Jonathan Correia:especially since sometimes it's, it's not you, it's just like the project, you know, and it's whatever you know is best for the project. Sometimes one voice is, it's the same with actors. You know, I hear actors all the time. They're like, what's the role that you wish you had gotten? It's like, for whatever reason, that was the person for it, and it wasn't me. And that's fun. You know, one of the, one
Brett W. Bachman:of the things that took me such a long time to realize was, like, how contingent just your own personal schedules are in your own career. I mean, you say yes to a film, and you're basically kind of locked up for, you know, six to seven, eight months, sometimes, if not a little bit longer. And so the our window, fortunately, if you're working, you know, that window of availability, you know, hopefully, is kind of short. And so if stuff gets thrown my way, or if I get an invite for to take a general or to read on something, Josh the first guy I'm throwing that opportunity to, if I'm booked on something, I mean, those things come, those things opportunities come and you're booked and you're not available. I mean, we're constantly referring each other for stuff.
Josh Ethier:Yeah, there's no reason it shouldn't go to, you know folks you trust absolutely
Jacob Davidson:and on that. How did you both get involved with Companion?
Brett W. Bachman:Well, going back to the all the shared history we have, we both worked with the same group of producers, Boulder light, earlier in our careers. So after Mandy, I had been my agent, had given me a phone call and said, I want you to meet these two guys, J.D. Rafi. They are They're young, they're extremely tenacious. They are very ambitious. They will be running the studio at some point in their lives, getting the door with them right now, and they had this project called The Vigil, which was a haunted house film. Oh, yeah, I love that movie. Oh, thanks, sir. Yeah, steeped Judaism and folklore, and had a wonderful experience working on this little movie. I mean, I think we're sub a million dollars, but the film developed, you know, a little bit of a cult following. We played at Toronto, played at citrus. IFC eventually put it out, but that was my introduction to the Boulder Light world, and I've stayed close with the guys over the years. This I received a text message from Rafi one evening, and he was like, we have a new project. Curious, if you interested in looking at it. And I had heard a little bit about Companion in the press with Creggers involvement in Boulder light. And I didn't really know Drew Hancock, the direct writer and director of the project, but they set up a general I met with a man, you know, very lovely, very smart, was clearly so passionate about this story. And then he went really well, and I got offered the opportunity to do the movie it took. We got going, knowing that there was a potential imminent strike on the horizon, and just a few weeks in the production, it became clear that, like they were not going to this thing wasn't going to be sorted out. And we shut the movie down half, just over halfway done shooting then, and we were able to only keep on editing for like, an extra two or three weeks and realize there really wasn't I had this common agreement that there really wasn't much sense in continuing to work on this half a movie. And so we got shut down. We shut down editorial. I'm hoping that we come back shortly, hoping that the strike would, you know, be over relatively soon. But took several months, and. And I received the phone call from Drew months later. He was like, we're coming back. I have some ideas. I want to run by you, but also, but first and foremost, are you interested in coming back? And I said, Of course, I'd be there in a heartbeat. There's a major stipulation I have to tell you right now, though, if I came on board, I would have to step away from the project around, like, week six. Of your directors cut because my wife and I are expecting twins, and so I would need to take up maternity leave for about a month and a half. But if you would have me and this arrangements, okay with you, I have someone I would love to recommend to sub in. And they said yes, and that's how they met. And, well, that's how Drew met Josh. But, I mean, Josh, of course, you have your own relationship with the Boulder Light guys that goes back even farther than me.
Josh Ethier:Yeah, about 12 years ago, I edited their, their first film, Contracted. So I've been, I've been friends with those guys for years, and that was, it was funny to go from a$50,000 you know, shot in LA, basically mumble core, stolen horror film too. Years later, working on, like, a Warner Brothers studio film with them, with, you know, Warners and New Line, but yeah, thankfully. When, when Brett recommended me, they they said, Oh yeah, no, we love Josh. And then it was just a matter of meeting. Drew who, like, like Brett said, is incredible. He's just like, this incredibly funny, incredibly funny, like, very, very thoughtful dude who really, really cares about his film, but also, I think, just from spending a lot of time in writers rooms and and and spending a lot of time pitching and stuff, he's just so personable and funny and easy to like, bounce back and forth with, which is great in the editing room. You know, I've certainly worked with folks that are a little bit quieter work with some folks that are, you know, everyone has their own sort of method, but Drew was like, perfect. He loved to bounce in and out of the room. I'm going to go do some emails, you work on this, and then he come back in. We'd riff for an hour or so, and then he'd step out to do this that, you know, but it was really easy and great to work with and and thankfully, too, that also meant that obviously Brett didn't need to go very far from the job, because obviously he could go take care of his wife and his and his two new baby boys, but, uh, but obviously we were just, you know, basically warming a seat for him for when he came back. That's awesome. Congratulations on
Jonathan Correia:on the on the kids,
Brett W. Bachman:by the way. Oh, thanks, guys. I just turned one year old last Sunday. Nice,
Jacob Davidson:Happy belated birthday. Thank you. Birthday. Birthday birthdays?
Josh Ethier:No, it's still
Brett W. Bachman:as a separate holiday for her, though, as well. So there's the public birthday party, and then there's also the my wife and I go out to celebrate her, her birthday, which is something separate.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, it's same birthday as as the wife, no, no, no. Just the event of,
Brett W. Bachman:like, giving birth. She's like, this is a holiday for me. Like, the act of, like, carrying them for nine months and going through it all, and now they're out, and now we have children, this is another holiday
Jonathan Correia:of freedom. You know, they don't really, no one really does that. That's, that's really awesome. It's like, yeah, no, she did all the work, like in carrying them, and it's twins, so like, yeah, no, definitely celebrate her
James Jay Edwards:as well. We've the three of us were lucky enough to see companion before it was released, so nothing was spoiled. And I've been, I've been telling people, if you see this movie, go in completely blind, because I've seen titles of reviews that spoil what, to me was the most untwist. Now, when editing clearly, the editing keeps the Movie Secrets. So how was that? Was that part of the process knowing that these reveals were reveals
Brett W. Bachman:at the time. Yes, we had driven forward with Lean little hints. Lean little easter eggs, here and there. And if you look at the film, you know, it's pretty easy to pick up on, you know, a few of these more, you know, not necessarily subtle, but you know the conversation with cat and Iris on the couch, where she's talking about sense of self worth. And
James Jay Edwards:I know Correia and I have both watched the movie a second time to see what, knowing where it's going, what you can pick up on. And you're right. There's a lot of cool stuff like that.
Josh Ethier:Yeah, it's it's worth this. Oh, it just wasn't made that way.
Brett W. Bachman:I mean, initially, before an audience was, like, familiar with all this stuff. I mean, that first reveal of her as a robot was like a barn burner. Like that broke that like, broke down the theater. In the testing process, when we're collecting data and we're having smaller friends and family screenings, like that moment in the movie, for an audience that didn't really know what this thing was, was consistently like the favorite moment of the film. And we, I don't know how much we really cared about maintaining a sense of secrecy about that particular moment, because, you know, there was a few audience members that did kind of piece together some of these uncanny hints that were leading up to that. But, you know, we also, I don't know if spoils. The right word. But there was a lot of discussion about an earlier moment too, where she says, The day I killed him. I'm like that used to be that was, initially that was written to be the day he killed me, and throughout most of editorial it was the day he the day the day Josh killed me. We made that switch in the editing process during a friends and family discovery. So I think it's safe to say, when working with Drew it became more about as opposed to what happens. It's, how does it happen? How do the characters react to it? Can it does revealing some of this information earlier on allow you to focus in on other particular character specifics, and, you know, hopefully build empathy for them
Josh Ethier:during the during the tests, we had a lot of it all, like basically all of our focus groups. There was even one group where a guy said, if you had marketed this as what it is, I probably wouldn't have come to see it, but I really liked the movie, and it was kind of like all the all the sort of research was sort of saying, like, oh, maybe we shouldn't realize, but obviously I don't understand marketing in the way that the New Line people do. And obviously I think they made the right choice, because the film was a, you know, a moderate success. And also what was kind of fun of that about that was when one of the things is spoiled for you, because that's not all that the movie is, you know, having, you know, you guys have seen the film. It's, it's about 20 minutes in that something is revealed, that is revealed in the marketing. But then there's a couple of other sort of, like ricochet reveals down the line that aren't spoiled. And those are now the moments that get, like, a nice big pop from the audience. And so I'm glad that, and they're not expecting, yeah, yeah, because they think, they think they're ahead of it. Everyone goes in there, you know, haven't seen the trailer or read those reviews, like you said, and thinking like, Oh, I'm I know what it is, and I agree it does make that first 20 minutes a little bit silly if you know everything. But you know, we never tried to shy away from it. We were just hoping that, you know what, however, however the film was marketed, it would find its audience, and we just tried to proceed with that as best we could. But I'm glad that some of that audience pop moved down the way to some of those other reveals, and so there is still, like, a bit of a bit of fun and a bit of discovery in the theater for people.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, absolutely. I mean, Jacob and I were at the Beyond Fest screening down at the arrow theater months ahead, and the November, yeah, back in November. And the only thing I would tell people is the worst part of Companion is the fact that I have to wait until the end of January to see it again. Because there was, there was so much that I was like, man. Because that first screening, I left going like, man, Jake Quaid is going after his mom's title for the rom com thing. And then I went on a second time, and I was like, No, he's not. No, he's not. That was, I was so naive with that for so like, there's, there's so much to unpack and so much to look for in it. And yeah, it was that that entire audience at that beyond Fest screening was just went bananas, like every five minutes, especially the the you don't know what it's like for guy, for people like me, line, the second screening we went to was just an AMC, small crowd, and so many people lost it at that
Brett W. Bachman:little eyebrow raised, and
James Jay Edwards:I had, actually, I had to kind of chase down a screening link, because my editor had asked for a review, and I the link I got was good For five views. So I took Korea's advice, and after I watched it the first time, I went right back to the second just so I could see, you know, what I had, because I knew right when I got through it on the call. This is why he wants to see it again. So it is, it is a different movie The second time through. But I'm so glad that I didn't have, I mean, even that first 20 minute I mean, that was jaw dropping for me. I didn't see it coming at all, and that's what I'm trying to protect other people from. But at this point, like you said, the marketing is so
Josh Ethier:if there's anyone out there who could get into it unspoiled, I say go for it, absolutely. Yeah,
Jacob Davidson:yeah. I was gonna say that. What really hooked me when I first heard about the film was that teaser trailer, where it was from the people that brought you Barbarian and the studio that brought you The Notebook. Like, that teaser was brilliant. And, you know, just the ambiguity and that type of marketing, like, it really got me interested, which is why, yeah, it was so shocking when I finally got to watch it with Jonathan at the beyond fest screening and see what it was actually about. So, yeah, no, I mean, just, and that was the other thing too, is that, you know, just having all those secrets going into it, that you know, even the initial one and then leading into the later ones throughout the rest of the story, just made such a deeper impact.
James Jay Edwards:Now, okay, we talked about Companion, but another thing that Brett has worked on that is another one of our favorites of the year, collectively, Heart Eyes. Oh, yeah, what was working on? Heart Eyes like
Brett W. Bachman:a dream. I love the experience of working on that film. Josh and I are close. Friends is my second time working Josh Ruben, my wife also gets confused all the time. I have to specify Josh Ruben, just easier a lot. Josh Ruben, joy to work with. The man doesn't have a negative bone in his body. He's so, so fun to be in a room with a guy for 10 hours a day and just spit ball ideas back and forth. He was a difficult film to assemble in the sense that we are in the same way that Companion has a relishing this oscillating tone and manipulating that Heart Eyes has. It's a little more silly, it's a little more goofy, but these tonal oscillations i are even sharper, and you have bigger peaks and valleys for the ups and the downs, and we kind of revel in the fun of all of that. But it's, I had a blast at a wonderful crew in that movie. Had the doing a film like this with studio support as well, with Sony, was you had all the resources, like at your disposal and getting people into we had a great opportunity to work in this location where we had like a little micro theater, and so like, once a week, we're bringing like, five people in, playing the movie down for them, and making changes, like on the fly these individuals, and just learning so much about the editorial process with them. So much fun. I cannot. I really hope we have the opportunity to potentially do another one or get the same team back together again, because everyone was great. Yeah, I was going to ask what. What is it like editing a movie that is kind of a mash up of genres like that, horror and rom com, which I guess can apply to both Heart Eyes and Companion? Yeah, it's difficult. It's really challenging, and, but in a fun, rewarding way, and, but it's all it's intuitive. Certainly, it really comes down all to your actors. It comes down to your script. It comes down to your director, and treating everything for real. I think if you look at these situations earnestly and with did you try and bring out and relate, bring out the actors best performance, and relate to the characters on a fundamental level and not feel like you're making a joke out of them. You can I was surprised by how much you can oscillate and deviate in tone with an audience, as long as you're following the actors lead, as long as it feels honest. I suppose we have several more tools like at our disposal to facilitate that and help all these tonal changes, I think probably on our two films, Heart Eyes and Companion, the use of needle drops was the soundtrack. And I gotta like, shout out Rob Lowry, like he his our collaboration on these movies, I really think make these films have this unique calibration of tones and the oscillation between just a sense of buoyancy, keeping these films fun, finding the right era and the right tone of these needle drops as well, with Companion, that's like, mostly like 1960s love songs, and then with Heart Eyes. It's quite eclectic, but I mean, going back to, like, a lot of some big, more recognizable pop songs, but also a lot of surprising finds as well, like we're utilizing Italian and French needle drops and but up against outcast and Supremes?
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, I, uh, What? What? I would say that what makes Heart Eyes work so well is as a movie, it understands what is so ridiculous about both rom coms and slashers, and it completely leans into it, and that's why it is so such a fun movie. And we've, yeah, we're big fans of Heart Eyes.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, when I was at the beyond fest screening, uh, Josh Ruben even said it's Sleepless in Seattle meets
Friday 13 Part Six:Jason Lives
Jonathan Correia:quickly is, and I, oh, sorry, I
Brett W. Bachman:was gonna say Jason Lives was. I mean, that was if Josh got a frame then, like, put it up on the wall above the wall above the editing desk. I'm sure he would like that was always North Star for the entire project. He was wearing his influences, like, very like, clearly, on his sleeve. And just the man loves the genre, he was so excited to kind of play in the sandbox. Just, I remember one particular day we came in after a test screen, and this is when we're still trying to kind of find the voice of the film. And we were trying to find a way to really balance some more of your slasher moments in some of these set pieces, particularly like in the the end of the movie and end of the second act, with a lot more of your more traditional kind of romantic comedy elements. And we were having a discussion about, you know, what to keep versus what to omit, if we needed to omit anything. And he went home, came in the next day, and he just was like, buoyancy, buoyancy, buoyancy. This is a film that is meant to be fun. I want. To be entertaining. This is not a film that I want. This is not a film that's meant you. Meant to make you feel bad, even if the kills and are gruesome. I want them to put a smile on your face. Still, this is meant to be a popcorn slasher, romantic comedy at its heart. And that became, like I said, the mantra for like, the entire process, yeah.
Jonathan Correia:And I always love it, because sometimes, you know, people will do the it's something meets something, you know. And it always warms my heart that, if they were, if someone does that, it's a specific it like, it's not just, like, sleepless Seattle meets Friday 13th. No, it's Friday 13th, Part Six, like, it's specific. You really do know your homework. If you can say it's this one specifically, because of the difference between all the sequels. And it makes sense,
Josh Ethier:six is definitely the most operatic of all the sequels. It really it's the most like lightning crashing in a window with a big music of all the Friday the 13th films. Yeah,
Jonathan Correia:that's where, that's where it turns into, like, Greek mythology, almost. It's amazing. And what I recently, I went and saw the monkey this weekend, and Oz Perkins was there and talking about working with actors, and how some actors will give you totally different tones with each take. And he was talking about Tatiana, who plays the mother in the movie, and he was saying that they would get like, 17 different, you know, styles with each take. And I can only assume that when you're working with someone like Josh Rubin, that there's a lot of improv or Drew Hancock, they both come from comedy worlds, and so I imagine that there's a lot of play, playing with that and a lot of improv happening. What's it like trying to like, find that right one? Because you can only use like, so like, so many takes for a scene, otherwise you're just playing like, all 17 and losing people. So what's it like trying to find that exact tone throughout it?
Brett W. Bachman:You got to use your emotional barometer, I suppose we it's, it's a bit of a dilemma that when you're watching dailies, and it's the first time you're ever going to see footage come in and you're you don't have an opinion about it yet, I like to be remind myself before I sit down for Dailies like, why are we here? What is the scene about what? What is the whose point of view are we in? What is the objective? What is the character obstacle that they're working up against? So having that kind of a framing device for all that. But on the flip side, I want to be so open to improv. I want to be so open for the gems, the things that happen when you get 546, actors together and just magic happens. For lack of a better word, you know, the fun surprises you get. We had a lot of that on both, particularly with Companion. I mean, Harvey, he cannot not improvise. Like, I think almost every other line from Harvey would be like a new variation of a line previously. And so you like, you're constantly on your toes for this, but you're also trying to remind yourself, look at, why are we here? What's the emotional point of view? But you know, with someone like him or Rupert, you know some of these phenomenal comedic actors, you are trying to be very cognizant of, when could a moment like this be really great for comedic relief? But when do we also need to play it more straight? When do we want? When do we feel like making a joke right now may not be fully appropriate, and, like I said, going back to your emotional Brom, or just feeling the moments, and that is not a that's not like a one take guess thing and we're done. I mean, Josh can tell you, like we are constantly revising this thing. I remember we did a press thing together, Josh, and you were like, editing is just re
Josh Ethier:editing. It's just editing is re editing, it's just the least fun part of the whole process is the is the assembly, because you're working in a vacuum, you're taking things and just putting it together. And that's like, basically you have, like, the sort of like Micro Universe of the scene, you know, what is the scene doing? How is scene written? And so you put together a scene, and you think, well, that's great. That's awesome. I think that works. Well, you drop that into a larger timeline, you know, and all of a sudden, all the scenes start to come in, and you start pacing them together, and you're like, oh, man, I was way off. I was just way off. Like this. This was not the way that this should be leaning. She should not be in this mood now or, or he's a little too red hot. I gotta tone that down. Or, like, you know, where is that line from? Harvey, I need a joke here. I need, you know, you really got to just sort of like, test it out as you go. And also, another fun thing that's really great about Brett and I's job, is that, you know, if you're on a set, you've got about 5060, you know, in larger movies, hundreds of people that are waiting on you to make your decision as a department head, or even just as any crew person, you know, all the way down to pas. You know, everything is like, we need to get this done. Here's our schedule how, here's how it goes. Whereas editorial is like, hey, let's, like, make mistakes for a week. Let's just try some things. Let's see if this works. Let's see if that work. You know, both Brett and I have great stories about unbelievably stupid needle drops, but when we when we tried them out, and. Everybody gave them their fair day in court, because the the edit room is so much different than being on set, you know? And obviously you want to be completely aware of time and schedule. And of course, we always are, but it's like, it's a little bit more like play time in the edit room, where you get to really, really try things and do things really differently and like, really weird and and because of that, it's like, you know, the famous thing is, like, we can, you know, you can be wrong for months as long as you're right for like, one afternoon. That's all anybody's ever going to remember.
Brett W. Bachman:I think one more common things I said the Drew was, you might hate this. However,
Josh Ethier:the thing I love about drew too, is that drew would always say, oh, man, I hate that. But, you know, all right, give it a shot. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. He was, he was very, very open to to trying all of the, the silly stuff, the good stuff, dropping lines, dropping scenes. There was, you know, and also having two editors on a movie. He was so anxious to see, like, just what I thought of sequences that Brett had already done that were working great. Because obviously, Brett's an incredible editor. So you're looking at a sequence, you're like, well, that totally works. And he's like, Yeah, but if I think if you just looked at it, just, you know, judging from being in the room with you, you have a different sensibility, you have a different sense of humor, your tastes are a bit different, like, just have a look at it, and suddenly I would find, like, one or two lines that were a little bit different. And sometimes it was like, Cool, we'll go with, you know, Josh's version of that scene, but we love this thing that Brett did, so let's bring that over. Or sometimes it was like, no, no, I really, I still think Brett scene is really, really good, but let's grab that read for that line, you know. And it was just experimentation like that that was also very fluid. And I think it's, it's mostly because Brett and I do have different tastes. We certainly have different skill sets. But I think the most important thing is that I, in my opinion, we're both very good editors. So it was that sort of, like, that was the only thing we worried about was like, we want to have a good film. We want to have, you know, a great cut and, like, ego out the door. Best idea wins. And it was because of that experimentation I think we stumbled upon like a really, really interesting cut in Companion. And that's
Brett W. Bachman:also drew, I mean, he's, he's always the North Star. I mean, he's always, you are there for the director. You're there to be their right hand person. And there's, there's, you're doing this in service for them to find the movie together. And Drew always had that, well, not always, actually, the very the movie quite significantly changed in tone from the point that we started shooting to the point that we came back from the strikes. I'll wrap up this thought, other thought though, and loop back to that because, I mean, he's like, I like Josh Ruben drew Hancock is an incredible director to work for. He's has a strong vision, but like Josh said, He's openly collaborative, and he loves to play when we first back to that tone thing, when we first started shooting the film was not very silly at all. I remember the first conversation I had with Drew he was like, and the script was very funny, but I remember reading the script and asking him, like, on a sliding scale of silliness, like, where do you see this movie from, like, a zero to a 10? And he was like, I view this as a negative 100 on the silly chart. I want to make a thriller with, like, the occasional comedic element, but I want it to be, you know, quite a little cold and kind of but with elements that, you know, hint towards some flamboyance and some buoyancy, and then once we get on to set that, I think you get Harvey, and you get Rupert, and you get Jack and all these great and Sophie, all these phenomenal Lucas, all these phenomenal actors, I was having to askew, I think, a lot of this improv at first, because it just wasn't consistent, I think, with what the movie that drew, the movie that drew wanted to make. And so that early cut we have, like a not even like a full cut, like we have half of a cut of a movie that was, you know, very took itself very seriously. It was like Trent resner and Atticus Ross had all this very intense electronic score throughout jokes, for sure, but, you know, not, not a whole lot. It wasn't until we got shut down for the strikes that drew, I think, went away. Showed this first 45 minutes of the movie to a fair amount of folks. And on that phone call I mentioned, when he invited me back, the other thing he mentioned was like, Oh, hey, I've been showing this cut to a lot of people, I really want to open this thing up. I want it to feel pink. I want it to feel fun. I want to relish in, like, 1960s love songs. I want this thing to soar. And so that allowed us to, like, go back into the editing room and like, re evaluate a lot of the performance that we had picked, and we reinstated a lot of these comedic beats, things that I think were like, we've kind of been holding back, you know, in that initial edit, and the film, just like, like, it made the job so much more fun, and the film really flourished, I think once we began to reevaluate it on those terms. Oh yeah,
Jacob Davidson:no, I agree. And also I wanted to. Ask what it was like editing, because there's several sort of dream sequences. Imagine spots, kind of cut away segments, and how you worked on those.
Brett W. Bachman:Good question, Josh, what do you think I I'm trying to draw in a blank right here we have the what is it? The opening of the supermarket. Oh, and then all the other reprogramming, that stuff's really fun too. Yeah,
James Jay Edwards:it was the Halloween party once
Josh Ethier:the imaginings, yeah, the Meet cutes were, yeah, I remember one of the things they were, all those were all really well put together by the time that I was on, like, for instance, that opening supermarket scene, I think I did like a little bit of music editing, but otherwise, the cut pretty much stayed exactly the same from the moment I was on it till the end. But we did play around a little bit with the the Meet cutes for Harvey and Lucas's characters, where we were like, how late can we get in? We don't want to do the whole pan down again. We don't like, do we go right for the joke? Do we go right to the dance? Like, just sort of like, tempering that and then screening it for an audience and then gaging that response and going back to the editing room? Like, okay, cool. We could try a little bit tighter. There were still a couple people that were ahead of us and figuring that out. And the one of the, I think one of the funnier jokes in the movie is the first time it flashes back to when he gets iris, and the Goo Goo Dolls is just blasting, and it's like to see me as it cuts to him and like, you know, the knock on the door and they're delivering Iris for him. But that sequence, that was one that we actually looked at because it was, it was a huge exposition dump that you have to have all of the information about, you know, the companions. But we wanted to make it like punchy and as fast as possible, and also lean on Jack Quaid performer to make it as as funny as possible. But I don't think there was anything like any sort of different approaches to it, the stylistically, but rather, just like, I think most of, most of what we went for was, like, tight, compactive, like, all of this is necessary information, but let's try to make it funny and fit in this, you know, this tone that we've created for the movie.
Brett W. Bachman:Yeah, I remember one point when we were first making those flashbacks, there was, like, a film nerd in me was like, trying to make them exactly identical between the Lucas meet cute and the Josh meet cute, where I was like, exactly the same Frank count, exactly the same shots, like, and that lasted all of like five minutes before it was like, this is not going to work at all. They just different, different rhythms. Yeah, different
Josh Ethier:different actors. You know, the
James Jay Edwards:audience had already seen it the first time. So it makes, it makes more sense for it to be abbreviated the second Yeah.
Brett W. Bachman:100% Yeah. And like Josh was saying, like, you're just, you're trying to evaluate where the audience is, and also, like, trying to stay ahead of them a little bit. And so if they can tell you're like, Oh, we're going to do the entire pan shot again. And then the stepping on the tail, like there's a sense of kind of it feels, begins to feel a little lethargic. And they're like, Oh, we got to settle in for all of this again. This is going to be, like, another 45 seconds, and Josh is exactly right. You just once they sense like, okay, where we are. This is the joke. We got to fly through this to get them back to the ACE, the a plot, get them back to the bulk of the
Josh Ethier:movie. Yeah. The the dream is to have your audience right with the movie, not necessarily behind it, and certainly not ahead of it, but like, right with it for like, maximum enjoyment, that's sort of like Spielberg zone. Of everything is sort of calculated and working well, because, like, for a popcorn film, that's really what you're aiming for, is, is that that level? And obviously sometimes that can be very, very hard to achieve. But I think we were lucky to have it on this one through great actors and great writing and, you know, obviously a great director and and also just that openness in the cutting room, absolutely and
Jonathan Correia:what a great joke. It's so layered with the whole eye. Her name's Iris. They're playing the song Iris by the goo goo doll. There's
Josh Ethier:a friend of mine who loves, loves, loves, loves the Goo Goo Dolls, and frequently tries to remind me that their first record was on metal blade. And it's just like they're so hard, they're so hard rock. When the joke was in there, and he finally went to go see the movie, he was like, he's like, I think it's really cool that he has really good taste in music. Actually, the joke of it wasn't just like, everyone will say, like, Oh, her name is Iris, the name and song is Iris. And they think that that's the thing. But really what drew and I thought, and I think is true so much about it is just like, Josh is just like, a really lame white guy. And so yes, he's just sitting in his room. He's just listening to, like, the Google dolls and like, that's kind of the joke about it. So I think it works really well across the
Brett W. Bachman:board. Drew loves as well, I think, was written for City of Angels, which his mom was in. Yeah, that's one of his favorite Easter eggs about the entire process. Meg, Ryan, oh, trust
Jonathan Correia:me, that movie was very popular in my house as a kid. My mom loved it. And Josh, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you some questions about Orphan: First Kill, because even when that was first announced, it's like, how are you. You get to do a prequel when the actress Isabelle Furman, I mean, this is 10 years later. She's an she's an adult. She's gonna play a younger version of the kids, worse of Esther. What were some of the editing challenges with that film? Well, editorially,
Josh Ethier:I mean, we had done a lot of that in camera, and which obviously, then, then fell on me editorially. You know, we had, like, a lot of Texas switches, where it would go from a double and then it would sort of show what she was looking at, and then it would come back, and it would be like a squatting Isabelle Furman. But she was, she was incredibly game on set. And I think she really loves the character Isabel as well she should. I mean, I think it's a pretty like, well loved character in horror circles. And she was, like, so keen to come back and, you know, revisit that world, and to bring Esther back. And she really, like, truly, mentally and physically bent over backwards to make that movie happen. And I remember reading and thinking in my head like, of course they're going to recast her, like, for exactly what you said, like, of course they're gonna recast her. And also, how do you sequelize A movie where, in the opening of the first one, you know, the main villain, like, drowns in an ice lake. So I was like, Oh, of course, it has to be a prequel. But I remember just falling in love with the script, because it was basically like a soap opera. It was just these two women going at each other. It was like a Bravo, you know, reality series, just under the guise of a horror film in like the in the in the orphan world. So I it was, it was, it was incredibly challenging, trying to make all that work, and also having scenes with with her and her dad, because obviously the entire point of Esther is that she falls in love with older men, and like trying to balance that and make sure that we had a proper reaction from Julia styles whenever we needed one. There was, it was a big challenge. But I'm actually really happy with how it came out. I think what was most exciting was that when it came out, people liked it for the same reasons that I had liked the script, which is like, Oh, this is just two trashy women going at each other. This is so much fun. This is, you know, almost like watching that, like that, that TV show feud. It's like, oh, this is so much fun. These, these, these ladies are just going at each other. Go
James Jay Edwards:get Korea started on hagsploitation.
Jonathan Correia:I was going to say that's why the orphan films work so well. It's because it is hagsploitation, but it's this. It's a child, but it's not a child. Do
Josh Ethier:you know that they're there? They announced the third one. I
Jonathan Correia:think I remember it, but it wasn't off top my head. I will be there. Yeah,
Josh Ethier:I have read it. I can't share anything, but it continues all of the, all of the storied intrigue of the series. And I think if you liked, especially if you like the second one, you would you would like what they're cooking up for part
James Jay Edwards:three. Can't wait. Speaking of what you can't share, we need to wrap this up. But what do you guys got coming up that you can talk about? You got anything in the cooker that you can let us know?
Brett W. Bachman:I got two things. I have a supernatural drama called Rabbit Trap with Dev Patel that is coming out at some point, I think later. Great film, just coming off of Sundance, and in August, I have toxic, toxic Avenger finally to burst into theaters.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, it was at the Beyond Fest screening that movie rules. I'm so glad it's actually going to get a release. Yeah, it's, it's me
Josh Ethier:too crazy that they made a $20 million Troma film, and I maybe, maybe that's why it took so long to release. But I'm glad it's finally coming out to find its audience, because that movie is a blast.
Brett W. Bachman:That is exactly why
Jonathan Correia:I can't wait. Because back in college, I worked on a Troma project briefly, and Lloyd was talking about selling those rights back then. And so it's been like a 10 over 10 year process of, like, getting this
Brett W. Bachman:thing in the film. I can't wait to, like, read the book about the pre production on this film, because it's, it's gone through, I think so many different actors attached and directors like I, I was, like, brought in a little bit on the story of, like, the behind the scenes, like, up until Macon was attached. But they found the perfect guy making, like, so much. He's a Tromas number one fan. He hit it off with Lloyd, and he finds a way to really balance the lunacy, the the craziness, with something that's really earnest. Yeah, the sentiments, Father, Son, Father, stepson, story at its heart, and it finds a way to be earnest and and sweet, without being like overly sentimental, but still being a goddamn Troma movie at its heart. You know, it's still a film where Toxie punches into someone, grabs their intestines, rips it out through your butt, and says, give me your lunch.
James Jay Edwards:What about you, Josh? What do you got coming?
Josh Ethier:I have probably around the springtime. Joe Begos and I started a film literally got him. It's almost five years ago now, but during the pandemic, we started like an apartment film over at his place, starring him and our good friend Matt Mercer. And it premiered at beyond fest last year, and it's still there. Still like a couple of music cues we were waiting for, a couple of visual effects that we were waiting for, but we were like, we've had this for so long, we just want to put it in front of an audience, which was great. And thankfully, people really responded to it and really enjoyed it. But that is now just about finished, and there's going to be a bit of a launch and a, you know, figuring out of distro and things like that. I think Joe's dream is to take that one like, make a 35 millimeter print and just like, tour the country with it, like drinking with a new audience every night. But yeah, that'll that'll be exciting for that to be out, and in whatever capacity it sort of exists, that'll be cool. And then Brett and I are both, you know, I'm sure we're both reading things and getting ready for what's next, and excited to embark on on some new success after both, both of us on Companion and Brett having, you know, Heart Eyes, which is an incredible one two punch in theaters,
Brett W. Bachman:absolutely. Oh, thank you, sir.
James Jay Edwards:Where can people do you got, or do you guys both have socials or a website? Where can people find out what's coming next? You say you're reading a lot. Where can people find out the next projects?
Brett W. Bachman:I really, I'm just on Instagram. So if I'm posting anything, any news there, I'm just on Instagram at Brett W.Bachmann,
Josh Ethier:yeah, mostly on Instagram under my name, Josh ether. I think I'm also on blue sky, but who knows if that'll take off. You know, I would say I am on blues. It's doing pretty good. Yeah. I mean, it's got, it's got to be doing better than X to and I mean, boy, that's, that's the sound thing. But I think we're both pretty easy to find. And also it's funny, as I'm sure, Brett and I both, we get messages from young filmmakers all the time that have seen us on this sort of publicity journey. So if anyone is listening and you love editing horror films, feel free to drop us a line too. We're both very happy to do anything we can to help younger folks figure out how to how to do what we do for a living.
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, right on. Love it. And also, I encourage anyone listening to look up either of these guys imdbs. There is bound to be a movie you love in one or both of their resumes there. These guys both have incredible bodies of work. So check it out. And thank you very much for being here. Like I said, we love companion, and hope we didn't spoil too much for people who haven't seen it, because go in blind. It's amazing. Our theme song is by Restless Spirits, so go give them a listen. And our artwork is by Chris Fisher, so go give him a like you can find us on all the socials, except for x under @EyeOnHorror. So check that out. And also ihorror.com is the website we call home, and everybody see companion and hard eyes and everything else on Brett Bachman and Josh ethiers resumes, and we will see you guys in a couple of weeks. So for me, James Jay Edwards,
Jacob Davidson:I'm Jacob Davison,
Jonathan Correia:I'm Jonathan Correia.
Josh Ethier:I'm Josh Ethier. I'm
Brett W. Bachman:Brett Debbie bobman,
James Jay Edwards:keep Your Eye On Horror
