Buy. Consume. Die.

This week, the boys review Bones and All, Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, and Trick or Treat Scooby-Doo!. They have a debate on serial killer mini-series, Jacob attends Severin's Pop Up Event, and discuss this ultimate evil in horror: Consumerism. From John Carpenter, George A. Romero, to Larry Cohen and Gremlins! All this and more on an all new episode of Eye on Horror!

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James Jay Edwards: 0:25

Welcome to Eye On Horror, the official podcast of iHorror.com. This is episode 97. Otherwise known as season five, Episode 19. I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host, Jacob Davison, how you doing Jacob?

Jacob Davidson: 0:41

do pretty well. I'm pretty excited. I'm gonna be heading back East. Soon for the holidays.

James Jay Edwards: 0:47

For Thanksgiving. Yeah, you get there a lot, huh?

Jacob Davidson: 0:49

Yeah, no, I go there go back there every year for Thanksgiving, just kind of a tradition

James Jay Edwards: 0:53

where you get to see the fam. That's fun.

Jacob Davidson: 0:55

Yep.

James Jay Edwards: 0:56

Also with us, as always is your other other host, Jon Correia, how you doing Correia.

Jonathan Correia: 1:00

Ah, you know, just preparing for the holidays, which working in COVID admin is is always, always so fun. Just read hunkering down for that. For that surge. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a thing.

James Jay Edwards: 1:18

My wife and I were just talking the other day about what we're going to do for the holidays, because we always there would traditionally be like a Thanksgiving at family house, you know, at family members houses, and then there'll be a Christmas Eve. And we haven't done it the last few years because of COVID. And also some of our family, our anti vaxxers. So we're kind of staying away. And I asked them all, do they even still do that? And they just don't invite us because we won't go or I mean, or does it not happen? And, you know, I'm still not sure what the answer is. But I think that they just don't get together. Or they get together in smaller groups. But yeah, I think we've just been on our own the last couple years, which I'm honestly fine with. I mean, I love seeing everybody, but I'm also a loner. I'm a loner, Dottie, a rebel.

Jonathan Correia: 2:06

Oh, yeah, dude, it's been friendsgiving for me for almost 10 years now. And occasionally, if it's like every other Christmas, I trade off going to visit family or in laws and stuff this year, I decided it's going to be an LA Christmas. I'm going to stay home. Play video games.

James Jay Edwards: 2:24

You don't go back to New England like Jacob does?

Jonathan Correia: 2:25

No, I don't. I mean, I have like cousins and stuff out in New England. But most of my immediate family is out of the state now. So Oh, yeah. So it's yeah. It's nice. I like I like I like the peace and quiet.

Jacob Davidson: 2:40

Fair enough.

James Jay Edwards: 2:41

Cool. What's been going on? I can tell you guys, I want to start off with this because I saw something awesome. Bones And All Luca Guate, you know, or however you say his name, his new movie? Um, have you guys seen this yet? I know, it's, I believe it is opened in LA.

Jacob Davidson: 3:01

No, no,

James Jay Edwards: 3:03

this movie is awesome. It's exactly the movie that you think is going to be made by the guy who did both Call Me By Your Name and the Suspiria remake. I mean, it's, it's being billed as kind of a horror romance. And that's kind of what it is. And I don't even want to talk about it too much. Because I've already seen one. I didn't know anything going into it, except that it was Luca. And there, it's filled with jaw dropping moments where you're just like, holy crap, did that really just happen? You know, and I've seen those spoil by other reviewers even saying what the movie is about. But the opening scene is one of those you're like, holy shit, you know, and that is what sets up what's going on. So when I went into it, I thought it was going to be like a Natural Born Killers kind of thing with just these two delinquents in love kind of thing. But it is not it is something completely, completely different. And if you haven't already had it spoiled, just avoid even headlines. Because it is I mean, it's, it's, it's amazing. And the way that it's revealed is amazing. And it's like, probably every act there's one huge holy shit moment. It's so good. The more I think about it, the higher it climbs right now it's at number four on my list. It's behind The Blackphone, The Northman, and X. And when I first saw it, it was at number eight, so it's already leapfrogged up the list. Anyway, Bones And All it's it's awesome. It is it's it's really gory, though, which I know that no one who goes to horror movies is gonna have a problem with that, but it's like, you know, if you go into it thinking, Oh, the new movie from the guy who made Call Me By Your Name, some they there's buckets and buckets of blood. It's a pretty gruesome movie, but I mean Suspiria his Suspiria went full Cronenberg in the last act. So

Jacob Davidson: 4:54

yeah, I mean, there were bugs have been in that one too. Yeah. So

James Jay Edwards: 4:57

I guess you know, he's, I feel like this It's the perfect marriage of what this about what he wants to do. I don't know how to say his last name, so I'm just going to call him Luca. It's the perfect marriage of what he does. So anyway, it's awesome

Jacob Davidson: 5:10

as me and speaking of, of filmmakers, making their opuses I saw Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio.

Jonathan Correia: 5:20

How nice. How was that?

Jacob Davidson: 5:22

Yeah. Oh, man, it was beautiful. You know, like this story has been done so many times and adapt across so many movies and TV and stuff. But

Jonathan Correia: 5:29

just this year alone. This is the third Pinocchio movie. Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 5:33

well, to be very fair. The other studios were basically trying to ape off the hype from Guillermo's Pinocchio, but no. Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio is the peak. It's basically an update on the story where it's set in fascist Italy. And yeah, like Geppetto makes Pinocchio and he comes to life and goes on all these adventures, but it deals a lot with like, the difficulties of parenthood and you know, how difficult children can be and life and death and all these existential stuff. And also has an amazing cast, you know, like, you know, like, there's Christoph Waltz and of course, who and McGregor, who plays Jiminy Cricket in this version? Lot of Guillermo del Toro regulars and yeah, just beautifully animated and stop motion. It's very fantastical, very well written. And it was so good. I cried. So much watching it like it was very emotional.

Jonathan Correia: 6:36

I mean, he's been he's been cooking this for decades at this point.

Jacob Davidson: 6:41

Yeah, we actually had him at the q&a at the theater and he's been basically been working on this since 2005.

Jonathan Correia: 6:47

Yeah. Which makes sense because what you just said with all the themes, I haven't been able to watch Pinocchio yet but we did watch Hellboy again last night and they're all there you know, the the themes of parenthood what it means to be human the you know, everything with that, which revisiting Hellboy was a lot of fun because I always thought like, Oh, that was more studio interference, Del Toro, you know, like, there wasn't much of that spark and that magic and what he brings to it. I'm dead wrong, dude, like Hellboy? Yes, there was that you could see like the studio interference, like especially shoehorning Myers in there agent Meyers but it's it's still Del Toro all over. It's still beautifully shot so beautifully. Obviously. Hellboy 2 is 1,000% Del Toro just going ham.

Jacob Davidson: 7:35

Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 7:36

But yeah, do those movies are worth a revisit.

Jacob Davidson: 7:39

But ya know, Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio was really good. And I would definitely recommend it. But it was funny at the q&a even talked about that, though, that, you know, he'd been pitching it for years. And they're like, oh, what's your Pinocchio movie about is like, it said, fascist Italy and deals with life and death and the studios just kind of shake their heads like no no

Jonathan Correia: 7:59

that. What's your take on Pinocchio? Well, first of all, fascist Italy. Oh,

James Jay Edwards: 8:07

hear me out.

Jonathan Correia: 8:10

But, but if anyone was to make that work, it is del Toro. I mean,

Jacob Davidson: 8:14

and he made it work

Jonathan Correia: 8:15

Thats Pan's Labyrinth, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, it's a fairy tale set. This horrible period. That's, that's his MO. And thank God for him. Um, one that I watched recently. I don't know if we talked about it yet. Have you guys seen Trick or Treat Scooby Doo!?

Jacob Davidson: 8:33

No, I haven't had a chance to see that one

Jonathan Correia: 8:35

Oh, man. I'm a big Scooby Doo fan. And I was so yet. excited about this new one because it's the first feature length Scooby Doo movie to do the animation style of of what they've been doing recently with Guess Who Scooby Doo. But also it got a lot of online controversy because it had made Velma cannon as as gay. Yeah, cuz she gets a crush on this developer. And it's, it's a lot of fun. It's kind of the little spoilery. But like, it's very, it's kind of like the Specre of the Scooby Doo movies where they find it. You know, very early in the movie, they established like, oh, yeah, all the suits that all our classic villains have been using were made by one person. So there's like one person that's kind of behind all the monsters, and they locked that person up very early in the movie and the rest of the movies like them having an existential crisis of well, we don't have any monsters to solve. We figured it out. Especially Fred. Dude, Fred has a meltdown. And it's, it's really fun. It's really funny. Matthew Lillard, like all the voice actors have been doing it, you know, are back, Matthew Lillard, as Shaggy, Kate Micucci as Velma and Frank Welker, of course is still Fred, you know, I think that man is going to keep being the voice of Fred for many, many years, thankfully. But, you know, with all the controversy surrounding making Velma canon gay, you know, the movie doesn't focus on that too too much. It's just another part of it. And it's, it's honestly really adorable. It's really fun. You just see Velma have like a big huge crush, and it just happens to be on a woman and I liked that the movie didn't make a spectacle of it. It just made it a part of like, you know, a character having a crush, and it made sense. And it was a lot of fun. I highly recommend it. There's there's a lot of great moments, they kind of do like a greatest hits with like, a lot of the classic villains. You know, it's just classic Scooby Doo updated. And and, again, if you love Scooby Doo, Trick or Treat Scooby Doo is a real treat.

James Jay Edwards: 10:52

Have you guys seen that movie? I think it's on Paramount+, Significant Other?

Jonathan Correia: 10:56

No, that's the hiking one, right?

James Jay Edwards: 10:58

Yeah, it's Micah Monroe and Jake Lacy. And there are a couple they go hiking. And it shows you from the the opening shot, that there's like a meteor or something that crashes in the woods. So you know, it's aliens from the beginning. And it's one of those movie it starts out really, really good. And then there's a couple of, there's a couple of real surprising twists in it, and then it gets just kind of silly. So it's not, I mean, it's still worth watching. Because it's also kind of short, I think it's only like 85 minutes or something like that. But yeah, it gets kind of corny by the end. But there's, there's a couple of really cool parts. And one of them is I mean, the alien is kind of a shapeshifter. And there's one part where you actually see it shift. And I don't want to say, from what to what, but um, because it's so it'll be it'll be a bit of a spoiler, but it's a pretty cool effect they do. And it's a simple one to, you know, it wasn't, you know, it's it's not like, you know, a whole lot of CGI, you know, morphing? It's just, I don't know, it's pretty cool. But anyway, it's a Yeah, it's like an alien in the woods movie kind of a thing.

Jonathan Correia: 12:10

i All I saw was like the poster for it. And it's them, you know, with all their hiking gear on and I sent it to my partner, Lindsey, and I just sent it to her. I was just like, I don't know why, but I feel like you need to watch this movie. Like this movie is made for you. And she's like, is it because of people hiking? I'm like, Yeah, I know nothing else about except that it's a thriller, and they're hiking.

James Jay Edwards: 12:32

Yeah, there's there's a lot of hiking in it. But there's also a lot of I mean, if this the setting is beautiful, the woods and then they open up onto this clearing that overlooks the ocean. It's I mean, it's, they definitely found a beautiful location for it, but it's just kind of I mean, it's one of those movies where like, you're watching it and you're you're totally in for like the first half and then you're then you kind of slowly you're like okay, this is getting a little corny. And then it goes places where you're like, Okay, you know now it makes decisions.

Jacob Davidson: 13:05

So last night I was at the Severin Films Super Shock pop up. It's like they're every year they do like a big kind of screening to announce some of their titles for the Black Friday sale. And last night they unveiled some bangers so you guys are familiar with the works of Alexandre De Iglesias right yes you know Perdita Durango, Day of the Beast, 30 Coins now but anyway, they they screened his first movie which they're going to be putting on a 4k UHD release called Action Mutante and bad it is one bananas as movie is okay, so it's like this sci fi action splatter punk movie about this terrorist group of deform people who have waged a war on like the upper crust bourgeoisie society and they kidnap the daughter of this industrial magnate at her wedding and it turns it it goes for like this over the top like gritty action movie to like this kind of adventure crime caper. And it just there's so much blood just over the line shit. It's it blew me away because like I heard about it for a long time. I just never expected it to actually get you know, like a stateside release. And the craziest thing of all was that it was Alexandre De Iglesias' first movie, and it was completely funded and produced by none other than auteur. Pedro Almodovar.

Jonathan Correia: 14:43

Ah, you have sold me so hard on this movie, like everything about it down to be funded by Almodovar. Like come on. That sounds incredible.

Jacob Davidson: 14:54

Yeah, no, it's it's a ride. And ya know, it's again it was just one of those movies I'd never actually thought to get the chance to see because it's like Peter Jackson's early work you know you hear a lot about it but little harder to come by these days. Yeah and the second movie which again you know was real surprise Dario Argento's third animal movie Four Flies on Grey Velvet is getting a stateside release. Yeah, I

Jonathan Correia: 15:21

saw they just announced that they're putting that out on 4k as well.

Jacob Davidson: 15:25

Yeah, 4k UHD and I saw the restoration print last night and it was stunning like look beautiful sounded beautiful. And again, it's one of those movies you know just you you hear about for a long time and you know, I've actually seen it but I didn't really expect it to get a stateside release anytime soon, but I'm really glad it is. It is a it's also like a very Argento heavy release because they also are putting out his like his one of his only non horror jello movies, The Five Days which was the kind of historical comedy movie he did after Four Flies from Gre- Four Flies on Grey Velvet, which they showed a little trailer for because again, you know, never seen it. It does look pretty well because it's like this weird Rosencrantz and Guildenstern style comedy said during the Italian revolution and the opening journal is like a bishop telling the people to go fuck themselves. So I'm sure it's it's gonna be wild to me it looks beautiful and apparently got a really big budget for gonna be interested in kind of comparing that against his horror work for change. But yeah, no Action Mutante. And Four Flies on Grey Velvet. Very surprising, but both very, very fun movies,

Jonathan Correia: 16:40

my wallets taking a big hit at the end of the month. That's Yes. Um, do you guys subscribe to Night Flight at all? Perchance,

Jacob Davidson: 16:49

not anymore. I used to

Jonathan Correia: 16:51

I highly recommend checking it out again, because I they have deals every now and then where it's like 35 bucks for a year. And it is worth every penny. I've been doing a deep dive while cleaning and watching a lot of music docs on it. But they have a lot of really weird ones. And one I wanted to bring up was called Children of Dracula, which sounds cooler than it is for it's basically in the early 90s. These television producers were looking for, like, you know, the next shock documentary to put on television to make for television. And so what they did was they put out ads in Dallas and LA looking for real life vampires. And they interview the people who respond. And it is so weird because it's very early 90s very like Action News, but like super low budget. And it's just interviewing people who have encountered real life vampires. This is a podcast so you can't see me doing the air quotes with my fingers or people who say they are real life vampires and it's just such a weird such a such a great like little time capsule of like that Action News, Jerry Springer era of this like weird you can almost put anything on television but still have to adhere to the FCC standards. It's it's such a weird and yeah. I'm not getting paid by Night Flight. But Night Flights Great. Yeah, Children of Dracula. It's it's not the greatest thing. But hey, if you're cleaning your house, it's a great thing to have on in the background.

James Jay Edwards: 18:35

Have you guys watched that series on Netflix The Watcher?

Jacob Davidson: 18:39

No, I've heard mixed things about it. I feel mixed things.

James Jay Edwards: 18:45

The story that it is based on is actually really creepy. It's about these people that moved into this house. And then they started getting letters saying, you know, I've watched this house for decades and blah, blah,

Jonathan Correia: 18:57

Oh, shit. I've I've read that story online. blah.

James Jay Edwards: 19:00

Yeah. And the thing is, the series takes it a lot for it's almost it's kind of like a speculation on what may have happened and, you know, the dives into like, you know, cult stuff like that might my issue with it is I feel like they wanted to stretch it to be a limited series. And it should have been like a 90 minute movie, because there's a ton of like red herrings and false turns. And you know, this suspect here, no, no, it's this suspect here. But no, now is this suspect. But wait, now it's back to the first suspect. And it's just just a lot of you know, it's like spider man pointing at each other. And the thing is, by the time it gets to the end, the ending is not very satisfying, which is kind of kind of goes with the true life story because honestly, the true life story doesn't really have an ending. I mean, the people who live there still get the letters, you know, that's all it is. But yeah, it's kind of it's creepy. But then as the mystery unravels It just kind of the whole thing kind of unravels. Yeah, there's just a lot of pulling rabbits out of hats and stuff, you know.

Jonathan Correia: 20:07

And that's the thing about the real life story. Because like the real life stories, essentially, these people get a house, and then they get these really, don't get me wrong, they're really creepy and disturbing letters about being watched all the time. And like, stuff like that. But that's all it is, you know what I mean? Like, it is like, especially if you're in that situation, it's terrifying and horrible. But I mean, like, it's just someone getting letters, and they never really figured out who it was. And like, they don't happen as frequent, but they kind of still are happening. So it's like, I could see that being adapted into a limited series being kind of like, either you're gonna stretch it really or take liberties and

James Jay Edwards: 20:45

they do both, they do come up with a cool, not excuse, reasoning behind why the letters even started, there's a cool little concept as to how the, the writing of the letters even came about. So that's kind of you know, the writers kind of did well with that. But um, but yeah, it's it's just, they're, they're I think they're trying to speculate a story that I think they just wrote themselves into too many corners with it.

Jonathan Correia: 21:15

Speaking of Netflix, limited series based on real events. How do you guys feel about Dahmer? Because I know that's been very popular on Netflix and I I personally can't help but feel like I don't want to watch it out of just like I'm not saying that I'm I'm sick of serial killer, you know, real life serial killer stuff, but like the Dahmer series just kind of feels like it's, it's hard to say because like there's there's there's still victims, families of the victims out there. And they're, they're being portrayed in these series without their permission, which I understand you know, a lot of it's it's it falls under like, you know, public story public

James Jay Edwards: 22:04

it's the news accounts. Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 22:06

right.

Jonathan Correia: 22:06

Yeah. So like, you know, I the producer and me is going like oh well yeah, this is all okay, this is all legal, but like at the same time it's it's every time one of these things come out those those people who survived are those people who have been affected by this evil I have to relive these moments have to relive all of this and not only that, but see the person that did this horrible fucking thing to their family have a series with its name on it and being played by an attractive actor and like, I can't help but like with Dahmer, and like, I don't know if Dahmer was like my limit of just like, You know what, I don't know if I can, if I can get continue being into it. I don't know. It feels different than like something like Henry, you know, where it's like more demonizing on it or takes more liberties with it. I don't know. Like, sometimes when it's like too close to it, and tries to be too accurate with it. It feels it feels dirty. I don't know what you guys are you

James Jay Edwards: 23:05

tried to watch Dahmer? I? Well, and I'm not saying I've given up on it yet. I just couldn't get into it. I watched one episode and then I was like, there's other things I'd rather be watching. So maybe I'll go back to it at some point. But you know, it was no big stand. You know, like you're saying about, you know, it's not that I didn't agree with anything. It just didn't grab me from the first episode.

Jacob Davidson: 23:25

No, it didn't really appeal to be they're just both kind of what like what Jonathan was saying and also just out like, what I'm just not really sure what more I have to gain from watching it. I mean, I know a lot about Dahmer from other stories of adaptations, and I don't know, just it just it just it really interests me as much

Jonathan Correia: 23:45

yeah, and don't get me wrong. This isn't this isn't like one because we all know how passionate I can get about stuff. You know, this isn't I'll say it straight out. This isn't me on on a box like I get with the Warrens, you know, but it's just one of those things where it's just like, I mean, like we're horror people we watch a lot of horror stuff. I don't know it's just like, do we need another Dahmer is project do we need another, you know, thing like that? Like, has that not been explored enough? And like, has it not been explored enough to the point where it's like, Okay, guys, we're like, really just like digging into some old wounds here. For some real real people.

James Jay Edwards: 24:26

The word isn't even explored. It's exploited. Yeah, I mean, you with Dahmer, at this point, it's being exploited.

Jonathan Correia: 24:35

And like, I don't want to I don't want to, you know, I'm trying to find the right words. I don't want to like make anyone feel bad for enjoying, you know, watching it. I don't want to, like condemn anybody who made it or worked on it. You know what I mean? It's one of those things where it's just like, I think just for me personally, like, it's, I get I've gotten a lot where people are like, did you watch the Dahmer on it's right up your alley, and it's like, you know what, I don't think it is. I don't think It is up my alley its like Game of Thrones. It's like yeah, that's just, I'm just not interested. Sorry Game of Thrones fans. Um,

James Jay Edwards: 25:05

but Game of Thrones is awesome.

Jonathan Correia: 25:08

Never watch it. I'm sorry. It's just

James Jay Edwards: 25:11

I mean if you're not if if you're never gonna watch it, that's your lost because it's pretty awesome. And that's okay. But thing about Dahmer is, it is, I think we've reached saturation point with Jeffrey Dahmer. Because, like, it seems like every six months, there's a new documentary, a new limited documentary series. There's a new, you know, The Dahmer Tapes, you know, there's something new every time so when this comes out, you're like, Okay, you know, at this point, yeah, I'm not gonna say who cares? Because obviously people do because people are watching it. But it's like, you know, like Jacob said, you know, what do you get from watching this now? You know, you? I mean? Is there really anything that you don't know? And I guess, you know, if they take liberties with this, I would love to see how they portray those two cops who gave that that kid who got away back to him. Yeah, I haven't gotten to that point in the series. And I don't I mean, eventually I might go back to it. But I didn't get there when I tried. I mean,

Jonathan Correia: 26:06

for me, and it's with like, all the all the major serial killers, you know, because but a little bit of Bundy a little bit of, you know, even I

James Jay Edwards: 26:16

can't get enough Bundy though. Bundy is very intriguing to me just because of how charming he was,

Jonathan Correia: 26:22

or like Ed Gein all of them. Like, there's, there's like, total saturation. I think like in order for me to get interested, or to be interested in a project about these people, it would be less about them and more about how like exploring the criminal investigation and the judicial system side of it, because a lot of the reasons why these people got away with stuff for so long is due to incompetence.

James Jay Edwards: 26:51

Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 26:52

I mean, like you just brought up like, literally one of the victims of Jeffrey Dahmer went to the escaped, went to the cops told him what happened. And they went, Okay, let's bring you back to this guy. Because there's some like weird shit going on here that we don't want to deal with. And we're just gonna give you right back to that. And then he got murdered. And it's

James Jay Edwards: 27:10

yeah, they thought it was like a gay lover's spat. And they were just like, we don't want to touch this. Yeah. And they believe Dahmer over the kid because the kid had been drugged. So you know, he was probably out of it. So they're like, Okay, just, you know, make sure he gets home. And Dahmer is like, of course, I will.

Jacob Davidson: 27:26

And I mean, that and that is one thing. I am glad that is being more emphasized with these types of shows. And that a lot of times, you know, the serial killers weren't masterminds, they weren't, you know, like criminal geniuses. They just were able to exploit a broken system in order to evade the law. You know, they targeted people that the cops didn't really care about, and they, you know, just when they were white, so they had that advantage there. And

Jonathan Correia: 27:52

don't get me wrong as someone who was such a diehard Dexter fan in the beginning, because that first season of Dexter is is one of the best seasons of television, and it never lived up to that.

James Jay Edwards: 28:04

It totally did the Trinity season

Jacob Davidson: 28:06

yeah, John Lithgow season

James Jay Edwards: 28:08

that would get the hell out of the first season

Jonathan Correia: 28:10

Don't get me wrong. The Trinity season is the second best season of that show. I still don't think it'd be season one. I came close but that was but also

James Jay Edwards: 28:19

I think it beats it but we can we can agree if we all have the same opinion. No, we all have the same opinion to be a boring world. But I

Jonathan Correia: 28:27

think we can agree on one thing is that those were the two good seasons of Dexter all the rest

James Jay Edwards: 28:31

Ice Truck Killer and trend in Trinity killer were the two big ones two and three were decent.

Jonathan Correia: 28:38

anyways, the best thing that the later seasons of Dexter did was that one word Dexter meets a serial killer idol. And he's like, Oh, the fact that you put that body on like the cops front lawn was such a fuck you to everybody. And it was so cool. And the guy was just like, Oh, I was shit faced and fell out of my car. I didn't even realize it fell on so it's thing and it like really? Like, explored like, no, oftentimes these are just like fucking idiots. Because you have to, you have to have in like some aspects like Hannibal Lecter is a fictional fucking character. And that is not how it works. Like. And so like, it's just it's just insane. And like what with something like that, it's it's understandable that if someone is operating on a level of just like chaos and randomness that it's hard to, like, put it together, but also just the inherent incompetency. I mean, I brought up Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. That man admitted and said he'd murdered so many cases to get like, because cops were basically like, Oh, if you admit to this case, then we'll give you some perks. And he's like, Yeah, sure. Fuck it. I'm already in prison for life. Like, yeah, I also did that one. Yeah, I also did that one. Cool. Give me some Burger King. And, and cops are like, cool,

James Jay Edwards: 29:51

except I do. I do think Ted Bundy was a genius though. If you look at at Bundys case, he was a genius. He was cold and Calculating about everything he did. And I mean, he not only evaded the cops when he was caught, he escaped I mean.

Jonathan Correia: 30:07

I mean, don't get me wrong. There's always exceptions. There's always there is always people where it's like, oh, okay, so they weren't but like, that's That's

James Jay Edwards: 30:14

why Bundy is so fascinating to me though is because he, I mean, he was in jail on death row for murdering women. And he was getting marriage proposals from women. It's like, do you not? Right? Yeah,

Jonathan Correia: 30:28

but do we need another series? Do we need another thing where he's played by some former High School Musical person? You know, like, don't get me wrong. Zac Efron was very good. But like, do we need to be reigniting that because when that series came out, or that movie came out, we saw it again where people were like, Oh man, Ted Bundy was hot. Ted Bundy was cute. And it's just like, do we need to do we need to be explored? It's one of those things where it's like, do we need to be making celebrities are continuing the celebrity level of these people, when we should be exploring why our system of justice is like failing so many people that these things happen. I mean, like, Why does America have so many serial killers compared to other countries?

James Jay Edwards: 31:12

I saw someone on social media somewhere might have been a Facebook post. Someone had asked about Zef Zac Efron Bundy, and they said, No, he's too attractive and too cute to play Ted Bundy ml. Do you know anything about Ted Bundy Ted barmy Ted Bundy was a charmer. I mean, that's the only person they will not the only person but they needed an actor like that, to play him because you couldn't get some homely fat dude by Ted Bundy because he wasn't homely. In fact, he was. You know, he was charming and handsome. So, ya

Jonathan Correia: 31:45

know, like that that was spot on casting. You can't do that with like, John Wayne Gacy, you know?

James Jay Edwards: 31:50

No, no, no.

Jonathan Correia: 31:52

I mean, like, I can't imagine that guy from being in Pogo the Clown makeup. I mean, I can imagine it. It just doesn't work.

James Jay Edwards: 32:01

Yep. Alright, let's, let's move on to our topic for the for the episode, which is we're getting into the holiday season. And Black Friday's coming up. Actually, Black Friday will have passed by the time this posts, but um, we're getting into the holiday season, and everybody's going to be out spending money and pissing people off in malls. So let's talk about consumerism and consumerism in horror movies.

Jacob Davidson: 32:29

A surprisingly popular subject. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 32:31

it kind of is. Yeah. And I think that the first thing that comes to mind for me, and probably one of the first things for you guys as well, is They Live.

Jacob Davidson: 32:41

Yeah, that is yes.

James Jay Edwards: 32:43

The Yeah, that right, there is the case study, because it's right down, you know, to the either to the messages with the sun, you know, with the sunglasses and all. I mean, it basically is not making fun of it's calling out the corporate world for its advertising and how it is basically preying on not the unintelligent, but the it's given people what they want in order to get them to spend their money. You know, it's showing people it's showing people what they want to see, you know, like, there's that commercial right now that says, young people react to commercials that show people having fun. So here's a pool party about insurance.

Jonathan Correia: 33:21

Yeah, and that's one of the great things about They Live not just its 10 minute fight scene, that's just like, so good. So good.

James Jay Edwards: 33:29

On the surface, that is the best thing. But if you peel the layers away,

Jonathan Correia: 33:34

yeah, well, I mean, the surface or not, I mean, that's an amazing fight scene. But it's it's a it's and that's why John Carpenter's work is will be forever is because he calls out societal issues that are still proud prevalent, whether it's Assault on Precinct 13, with its critiques on the judicial system, and also, you know, how crime is handled to They Live about consumers, and we're still, we still have advertisements, we're still dealing with it. The whole point of advertising is it's a part of psychology, so it's getting you to notice it. And even if it's not something that's overtly subliminal, there's still that tactic of getting it in your head multiple times. So you know, when you're driving through down the highway, you see the Black Adam, advertisements enough to where you go, you know what, Pierce Bronson does look pretty dope as Dr. Fate maybe check out Black Adam, it's that repetition. You know, it's still there. And the tactics are always changing. I mean, fuck dude, how many seasons of Mad Men did we have? Where they were basically just like telling us how stupid we were for falling for the tactics.

Jacob Davidson: 34:42

And that's the thing with They Live is that it was in his time a direct response and rebuttal to Reaganomics, which, you know, because like in the 80s advertising, marketing consumerism was at an all time high and Carpenter just decided to kind of cut to the chase. eat of it you know because like the signs literally say consume and obey and my personal favorite the money that says this is your God. Yeah, they're yeah they're trying to control you by like getting you to by their by their product and not just buying the product but buy into their yuppie lifestyle.

Jonathan Correia: 35:18

But and and just think of how how much of our world is shaped by advertising. Getting back to one of the greatest advertising and by greatest This isn't like me saying like it was a good thing. But just like the most, I think the proper verbiage would be the most successful advertising program was early in the 19th century, there was a company that made Shavers and they're like, man, we really cornered the market on men's shaving because men have to shave their beards. But how can we make more money, and they started a campaign to advertise to women, but Women don't have beards typically. So what do you do do to to appeal to women, you start making you start changing the beauty standards of the time and shaving legs shaving armpits, now you have an entirely new market. And it's still and then its effects are still felt today, or even if it comes to fashion on what's fashionable, affects what we perceive as attractive. You know, it could be something they like right now. Like right now, let's pull something out, like bell bottoms may not seem like a cool, or hip, or sexy thing to do. But there was a very successful campaign Where's where that was the thing. And it's working on our inherent things, or even just Coca Cola with Santa Claus. I mean, Santa wasn't that big of a thing. St. Nick wasn't a huge thing outside of certain areas of the world. And Coca Cola made it a thing. And then there's many, many, many, many more examples of like, how much of our culture how much of our world has been changed to advertisements, and They Live just, like tapped into that so hard. And I just love how, under the advertisements, it's just white and bold words that just say stuff like consume, obey. And that's

Jacob Davidson: 37:07

how we got the works of Shepard Fairey. Yeah, that's it in terms of other critiques of consumerism, of course, one of the other big ones I might one of my personal favorites would of course be George A Romero's Dawn of the Dead. Yeah. Because you know, like, takes place in a mall. Yeah, all the and all zombies go to the mall, because it was a place that was important to them. And, yeah, so you just got like, all the zombies just wandering the mall and like, just, like looking for stuff that they don't need. And yeah, just you know, the metaphor couldn't be more upfront, but it's still just as devastating

James Jay Edwards: 37:41

but as subtle as a heart attack.

Jonathan Correia: 37:43

Yeah. What when is it no longer a metaphor? Because it's no longer like subtle like, when is it like so in your face that can't be called that?

James Jay Edwards: 37:52

That is when we say not subtext. It's text.

Jacob Davidson: 37:55

Yeah, I mean, like, remember all those comparison pictures with like, screencaps of Dawn of the Dead compared to people shopping on Black Friday?

Jonathan Correia: 38:02

Yeah, and that's the thing too, is that and because there's the very over, it's like, oh, consumerism zombies consume. We consume products, like zombies consumed bodies, you know, and there's those overt things, but there's all these great moments like, we have that awesome montage, where they finally close off the mall, right? And they finally get rid of like enough zombies where they can safely roam around, and they just have a quote shopping spree where they're just grabbing everything that they possibly could have wanted in a mall. And they look comfortable, you know, at a certain point, but they don't seem fulfilled. They have literally that access to all the mall. And it's not like, you can see that they're not fulfilled, you know, they're just like, oh, okay, well, now what now, cause we live in a fucking mall now. It's not the most glorious scenario.

Jacob Davidson: 38:53

Yeah, like, like that one scene. There's a, there's a few scenes where like, they're in the mall by themselves, like each of the different characters. And yeah, they're just very isolated. Yeah, they got all their stuff, but they're alone. Yeah. And they're

Jonathan Correia: 39:07

bored. Because they got all their stuff. And then it's, it's a now what and who doesn't feel that, especially in this time, where you can just order things online. And it comes in a couple of days later, like, you get really excited. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a huge blu ray collector, and I'm like, oh, fuck, yeah, dude, this new blu ray is gonna be awesome. It's gonna be great. And then I get it, and I watch it. And then I go, Alright, what's the next one? And like, yeah, it's that you get that? It's like, it doesn't fill that hole. Kind of like how you never satisfy the hunger of a zombie.

Jacob Davidson: 39:37

Exactly. You got to have more, more more. It just like this homeless. Yeah, this homeless guy just finds it

Jonathan Correia: 39:41

like and then on the other side of things when it comes to food consumption, you got The Stuff? Yes. Which is so amazing, because it really does get into the rabid food, fad side of consumerism. And even though people are getting and no one questions like, Wait, where's this from? Like, first of all, I just love how The Stuff it's origins it's just wait. Yeah, you know, fucking the ground. And so it just goes, Oh, I wonder what this tastes shouldn't we be looking into what this Stuff is? Like? No, it's Stuff.

Jacob Davidson: 40:21

Yeah. And also it was a pretty fun critique of the Cola wars of the 80s. Because yeah, like Pettis of the story is Michael Moriarty is a corporate saboteur hired by the other desert companies. We want to figure out what, what's the deal with this stuff and how they can either destroy it or use it to their own advantage. So they hire him to infiltrate The Stuff to figure out what their deal is. And, ya know, just you know, because yeah, you go, Larry Cohen went into the corporatism of deserts and food fads at the time. And he also like They Live went into the advertising and marketing because, like the commercial with like all the scantily clad women, like presenting the stuff, it's also

Jonathan Correia: 41:05

just great that it's called The Stuff like, yeah, they didn't come up with any better name. So and just what what is it? It's stuff? Well, we got to put the in front of it to make it mark. It's like social network before Social Network. What if we put the in front of it,

James Jay Edwards: 41:20

they had to rush it to market. They have time to think of a clever name,

Jacob Davidson: 41:25

I guess. And then And then yeah, but there's a whole twist that the stuff literally eats you, eats you alive and like takes over your mind.

Jonathan Correia: 41:33

And that's the thing is like we got filmmakers, you know, John Carpenter, George A Romero, Larry Cohen, they were they were masters at doing stuff on budget. Budget, but also giving you the shlock, giving you the horror, giving you the thrills while also making you think and making you question things. And that's why that's why they're forever, you know, their work will live on for for all time. But what about American Psycho? Because that's one that you don't think in like these, the ones that we've been talking about? They're very overt about it. They're very like, hey, consumers and iHorror It's like, oh, yeah, no The Stuff. Dawn of the Dead, you know, obvious, but American Psycho is very much so about that, like obsessiveness. It's about that

Jacob Davidson: 42:19

the damn, yuppies.

James Jay Edwards: 42:20

Yeah, it's more about materialism and consumerism, which is two sides of the same coin. But with American Psycho. It's like everything that the guy holds dear is basically you know, he'll talk about his expensive apartment, he talks about how much money he makes, you know, everything is about stuff he has. And, you know, to that famous scene where he's freaking out, because the other guy's card is classier than his even though they look exactly the same. You know, it's, it's, it's just his whole identity boils down to how I guess how successful he is, which is judged by how much stuff he has.

Jacob Davidson: 43:02

Yeah, like that. I love the recurring theme that he pays for everything on credit card, because especially at that time in the 80s, it's like you had to be a high roller to pay with a, you know, plastic credit card, and he even tried to pay for the prostitute with a credit card.

Jonathan Correia: 43:20

Well, credit cards were also new in the 80s. Like, yeah, that wasn't a thing prior to that. Same with credit scores. By the way, credit scores were created in the 80s. And only America does it and are bullshit.

Jacob Davidson: 43:31

Oh, yeah. And other. Yeah, there's another bullshit system in the 80s. Yep. Thank you. Ray created me a sucker. But

James Jay Edwards: 43:38

also his there's a lot of the reason American Psycho comes off as a satire is because it was made in 2000. And it's looking back on the mid 80s. So, you know, in retrospect, if it was made in the well, the book was written in 91. So it couldn't have been made that early. But if if that movie was made in the 80s, it would have been a different kind of movie, it wouldn't have been as it wouldn't have, you know, the whole I got to return some videotape, you know, that wouldn't. That wouldn't be funny. It would be or how much does he pay for his video club membership? It's like hundreds to join this because VHS rentals were new, you know, and the tapes themselves were costing the people who were renting them hundreds of dollars, so that you had to pay a fee to for the privilege of renting the tapes.

Jonathan Correia: 44:27

Yeah. Well, and that's the thing too, is if we're going non horror, we gotta go Fight Club and Josie that we talk about consumerism and ads exploiting you know, filling that filling a small void you know, of feeling stuff and who has a bigger voice than a psychopath, you know, because inherently there's a there's a lot of personality that's just missing there. And so he threw materialism through even just pop culture knowledge is trying to present himself as as a as a person, a person of, you know, that wants so everything in him is fake. He doesn't give a shit about who Huey Louis, but he wants all the facts about Huey Lewis as if he does enjoy something that brings joy to someone. He doesn't care about Reese Witherspoon and his relationship with her but she is somewhat of status and so he's he has that relationship going he because he doesn't care about doing having a relationship on that level. He just wants to use people. And that that's and the Pussycats, which are two of the biggest consumerism but definitely like the the elite status of what we're talking about today with consumerism and materialism with American Psycho. And then of course, there's with the holiday season, we have the holiday consumerism specific movies of stuff, like, of course, Black Friday, and Krampus, which I think are two your Eye On Horror not eye on movies of the biggest. And I'm gonna throw it in there. I know it's not inherently horror, but it's a horrifying situation Jingle says the fringe guy,

Jacob Davidson: 45:45

and it's sort of related. I would also say All The Way. Yeah. How is that not a terrifying story of someone who is being driven to this point, and yeah, no, that kid wanted that toy but like, that kid did not want that toy that much to go through that much shit. You know, Gremlins and especially sorry Gremlins and Gremlins 2: The New Batch. Both probably anti consumerism, again, especially the sequel because in the sequel, you know, they did set it that like advanced Wall Street office building with like, all the products and all the stuff and all the Gremlins get into everything you have like mass consumerism, turgid, Gremlins, or even

Jonathan Correia: 46:39

just the exploitation because the whole point of Gremlins is here is this massive amount of responsibility embodied into this Mogwai, right. And even from the get go, the father of the first movies like man, every kid in America is gonna want one of the and we get even more of that when we get into the corporate building and new batch, which I'm always down to talk about New Batch for as long as possible. So if we want to do a whole episode of new batch, I'm there. And then that's, that's the whole thing is that exploitation, whether it's something that's sacred, something that's old, and you could easily translate that to the exploitation of like, natural resources, and what have you, you know, and it's all bundled in this cute little Mogwai

Jacob Davidson: 47:23

that can turn into a horrible monster.

Jonathan Correia: 47:26

And that's what's so great about our genre is we can make these big critiques we can make these statements and make it consumable for the viewer something that we it's easy to digest and to think about, and it's entertaining, because let's be honest, I don't know who hasn't been in that classroom where they put on a documentary about this stuff, and you're asleep within 20 minutes. Yeah, because it's it's hard when it's like a hard hitting drama or something to retain attention, but you add aliens, you add monsters, and it's it's much more palatable, to be able to be making these big critiques and themes.

Jacob Davidson: 48:06

Yeah, funny story. I actually got permission to show Romero's Dawn of the Dead back in high school for my social studies class, because I said, you know, it's about you know, it's about consumerism. So I got to show George A Romero down to the dead to my high school social studies class, and we had a blast. Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 48:23

Which cut did your show?

Jacob Davidson: 48:25

Whatever the Anchor Bay DVD was?

Jonathan Correia: 48:28

I think that was a theatrical. Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 48:29

probably. But you know, it's still good,

Jonathan Correia: 48:33

though. Yeah. I, I love all the cuts. I mean, there's detractors to Argento is you know, European cut. But I think it's a different experience is a lot of fun

Jacob Davidson: 48:44

and educational.

James Jay Edwards: 48:46

Let's wrap this discussion about consumer horror up by bringing it back to carpenter with Halloween 3: Season of the witch Back to carpenter. Okay.

Jacob Davidson: 48:58

Probably was, yeah.

James Jay Edwards: 49:01

That one is, is one of those ones. That's overt and covert because it's clearly about selling these masks to kids. But then when you see what the masks do, it's a little more subtle. It's you know, that with its themes, but on the on the surface it is oh, yeah, yeah, you know, eight more days till Halloween. You need your silver shamrock mask or you're not going to be cool this Halloween.

Jacob Davidson: 49:28

Yeah, and I like how you know, they're so popular and like the kids is that that montage showing kids across the country wearing the masks and like they all have and they all they're all wearing them but they also like integrate them into different costumes like there was that jack-o-lantern pirate kid and there was like the witch on the skateboard. So you know it's like everybody's got the Mazda I guess you just twisted around because you know, like, if it's only three costumes it'd be kind of weird if everybody was wearing the same three costumes but what do you want to

James Jay Edwards: 49:57

be this Halloween a pirate, but I still need this mask.

Jacob Davidson: 50:00

Exactly. It's like it's so popular that you have to, you know, you have to wear the mask, even if you're doing a different costume like that. And yeah, it's like kind of a Yeah, exactly. It's a popularity thing. Because at the beginning, remember, Tom Atkins character gets like regular masks for his kids. And they're like, oh, but Mom got us, the poppy, the awesome silver shamrock masks, which itself kind of feels like a commercial.

Jonathan Correia: 50:25

Well, and one really interesting thing about season of the witch I mean, a lot of these movies cover it too. But it goes into the corporate, like irresponsibility of like safety measures, right? I mean, how many? How often do we hear like, oh, shit, this crib will murder your baby. So we're recalling it. But like, how long? Has that company known that that's a factor. How long has people had? Did they care that that toy had lead in it? You know?

Jacob Davidson: 50:53

Yeah. Cuz they it makes such a big deal out about final processing?

Jonathan Correia: 50:57

Yeah. And if if it if someone hadn't found out that, you know, this action figure had lead in it, would they have if they weren't called on it? Would they have just kept making it because of the cost cutting and stuff? Granted, it's obviously the motivations and Season of the Witch are more of macbre and or a cult, and you know, those don't

Jacob Davidson: 51:18

Stonehenge

Jonathan Correia: 51:19

in Stonehenge, I, off the top of my head on this early mornings don't fully comprehend that part of the plot. It was there, you know,

James Jay Edwards: 51:28

it comes back to Fight Club with, with what was the guy's job where he had to determine whether paying out settlements was going to cost less than a complete recall. Dangerous.

Jacob Davidson: 51:40

And it also, I think it specifically had a lot to say about the consumerism, culture, especially building around Halloween, because, you know, it's like, the masks of the candy and the decorations in the industry around Halloween. And, you know, it's like, I guess that versus it's folkloric origins,

Jonathan Correia: 51:58

which is awesome. And I mean, like, then, I mean, one of the things that I always enjoyed about Season of the witch is it does pull in those themes of folklore, where the old world comes back, whether it's in a small capacity or big capacity, and the New World, the current world is terrified of it, you know, it's terrified of going back to nature of these pagan exercises that are more about praising the earth than it is about, you know, capitalism and consumerism. And that's usually the thing that terrifies the modern world more than anything else. And I think that's why See, one of the reasons why seasonal witches is still so relevant, and it has found at second wind in the last 20-25 years or so,

James Jay Edwards: 52:39

I think it's found its second wind, because of Scream Factory. And people are realizing that if you take away than the fact that it was a Halloween movie, it's a really good movie. You know, it's not what people expected at the time, which we discussed. You know, already. When we talked about Halloween last episode, Michael Myers fans versus Halloween fans,

Jonathan Correia: 53:01

it's when it comes down to. Halloween fans versus Michael Meyer Fans, which

Jacob Davidson: 53:06

itself is kind of a funny meta textual bit about consumerism, because the whole thing with Halloween was is that yeah, Halloween 3 Season of the witch came out with a different story. And it was great on its own, but the people audiences wanting to consume more Michael Myers. They wanted more, Michael, if that's what they wanted to consume. So the studio brought Michael back

James Jay Edwards: 53:26

Halloween itself, like, the holiday is kind of, I mean, it's clearly a consumer thing. But I mean, if you think about it, like there's a company that makes enough money to survive all year, on opening up the Spirit Store for one month.

Jonathan Correia: 53:44

Well, they start in July now.

James Jay Edwards: 53:46

Wow. Okay. So more than a month, but yeah, there are a couple that as we wrap up, let's just throw this out there. And let's see what the listeners think there are a couple that we had in researching this that got named. And we it was from what was it Nightmare on Film Street did this article like four years ago. And there's a couple that we we didn't bring up because we don't know if we agree with it. One is Cloverfield, which I'm not sure that that has to do with consumerism. And the other is Videodrome. And Videodrome, I don't think has to do with consumerism so much as it does about media, which I guess you consume media. But those are ones that we didn't really bring up because I don't know that we agree with that thesis. If you do, let us know. Because if you've got a fresh take on it, that we're not thinking of

Jonathan Correia: 54:38

Yeah, you know, I was thinking about that about that a bit while since we've been talking because one of the things that they brought up with Cloverfield, at least was more in the marketing of the film itself and the prevalence of the fictional products in it with Slusho and things of that nature and how that works with that And that obsessive? in it. I mean, both films do kind of explored the themes of, of medium and or media, and how prevalent that is in our lives, whether it's consuming or documenting something for that purpose, you know, like, what is the purpose behind TJ Miller's character in Cloverfield and filming all of it? You know, because with his character, it's very much of a, like, whoa, we got to save this for later because, you know, it's, it's cool. And then like, and how that changes throughout the film of like, No, we have to document this because there's some fucked up shit going on. So I yeah, I mean, like, there's there's definitely arguments to be made with that. I just don't know if we, if we have the time right now to fully explain.

James Jay Edwards: 55:49

I don't know that the argument is there. I'm not sure that that was the intent of these. I mean, it may have been subconscious. But Videodrome especially I don't think that they're going for consumers and so much as they are just the media and more importantly, the illegitimate media, you know, the pirate TV stations kind of a thing so well,

Jonathan Correia: 56:08

I mean, media is a product that we do consume at the end of the day, you know, it's, it's advertised to us, and we are being sold to I mean, I brought up the, you know, the advertisements for Black Adam, you know, that is a that is a movie which is a product to be consumed. So, you know, media consumerism, they do go hand in hand. You know, I just I wish they had given more explanation as to why, and explored that a bit more still great article that list off a lot of movies we did not discuss,

James Jay Edwards: 56:42

you got, if you have any other theories about these movies or any other movies we've discussed, hit us up, we'd love to hear from you. And let's get out of here for this week, or for this episode. Our theme music is by Restless Spirits. So go check them out. And our art work is by Chris Fisher. So go check him out. You can find us on all the socials at Eye On Horror or at ihorror.com which is the website that we all call home. And yeah, let us know what you think of these consumerism movies and especially about whether or not you think Cloverfield and Videodrome are because I'm really curious now to see what people think. So yeah, let us know. And we will see you in a couple of weeks. So for me, James Jay Edwards.

Jacob Davidson: 57:29

I'm Jacob Davison

Jonathan Correia: 57:29

and I'm Jonathan Correia.

James Jay Edwards: 57:31

Keep your Eye On Horror.