Toxic Fandoms

This episode, the guys talk about their Vinegar Syndrome and Severin Films Black Friday hauls, geek out about Titane and Addams Family, Resident Resident Evil Expert Jacob reviews Welcome to Raccoon City, before discussing toxic fandom and how it has reared its ugly head with Ghostbusters: Afterlife.

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Get more horror movie news at: https://ihorror.com

Transcript

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James Jay Edwards: 0:24

Welcome to Eye On Horror the official podcast of iHorror.com This is episode 77 Otherwise known as season four episode 20. We've had 20 episodes this year. Can you believe that? I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host Jacob Davison how're you doing Jacob

Jacob Davidson: 0:43

doing good. So on the East Coast and three hours into the future

James Jay Edwards: 0:48

don't tell us what happened No spoilers

Jacob Davidson: 0:50

oh you don't want to know

James Jay Edwards: 0:52

also with the yet again is your other other host Jon Correia, how you doing Correia?

Jonathan Correia: 0:58

doing good. Living in the present, unlike some of us, but you know

James Jay Edwards: 1:04

we're in the past to him.

Jacob Davidson: 1:06

You are but caveman to me.

Jonathan Correia: 1:09

But time is relative. I mean, it's a construct.

Jacob Davidson: 1:12

Time is a construct time is a flat circle.

James Jay Edwards: 1:15

So how're you guys doing? What have you been doing this week? I have been doing nothing but watching award screeners which a couple of them are nice and hoary, but I haven't seen a whole lot of horror stuff. What about you guys?

Jacob Davidson: 1:28

Well, you know, it was Thanksgiving. So I was out here with a family having a good time. Ate My fills and Eye On Horror side of things, went to the archive in Bridgeport, Connecticut and had

James Jay Edwards: 1:42

a ball like we do you would visiting the other family and by

Jacob Davidson: 1:47

home away from my home away from home. But yeah, you know, do my usual thing visiting the Vinegar Syndrome headquarters archive in Bridgeport, Connecticut for the Black Friday sale and to pick up the new releases. And happy first night of Hanukkah, because I got a haul

Jonathan Correia: 2:04

Happy Hanukkah.

James Jay Edwards: 2:06

Yeah, we're recording this on the 28th which is the first night of Hanukkah so Happy Hanukkah to all of you, Hanukkah celebrators.

Jacob Davidson: 2:14

But anywho Yeah, no, I went to the archive in and got some pretty rad stuff. They had some great new releases. I'm holding them so you get what I mean. So there's a podcast, you can't see them. But yeah, I got let's see. Dario Argento's Trauma was very excited about that one. Also, this is a personal favorite for me, but William Malone's Creature in the 80s Alien rip off with Klause Kinsky being as Klause Kinsky as he can in space in space. Yeah, you know, like if you've got a Klause Kinzie was wild on earth you know Dizzy clause getting the space that dude is crazy motherfucker. And one of my personal favorite movies of the year Censor dad, like I was so excited that they were doing a big giant release for this one because it is definitely one of my favorite if not, but definitely my top three horror movies for 2021 It's got an a slipcover with the fake movies in it and I felt it was worth picking up a physical copy and yeah, God's got some other bits and bobs like the Tiger Claws trilogy with Cynthia rough rock been watching a lot of her stuff for vinegar syndrome See also found some rare out of print slip cover stuff like Correia I think you'll be pretty excited about this. I managed to find a copy of Bloody Nose Empty Pockets Yeah,

Jonathan Correia: 3:47

that's a great one. I got one of the last copies like I slipped cover. Yeah, I saw they it was run it was going quick. I was like Ah fuck alright, I'll add add to existing order.

Jacob Davidson: 3:57

Yep. And this was a blind by got Red Mob the Russian action movie is like Commando but Russia. But ya know, very excited to dive into these. And like I said is has been a very Happy Hanukkah. And just small anecdote, just with Creature. I was very excited about that. Because I'd actually been to a screening hosted by William alone at the new Beverly theater. One of his earlier films Android also with Kinsky. And creature, and I was lucky enough to win a DVD copy of the movie from him. Because he had his own cut the time find what you made on DVD and it was like, Yeah, like that. Who knows if this will ever be on home video. And, lo and behold, a couple years later, vaguer syndrome, once again pulls a miracle. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 4:46

yeah, I'm still reeling from the fact that you won something that never never happened. I didn't hit the Vinson sale too hard. And it's funny because three of the four titles I got I already have on DVD so I'm just upgrading that's Fear, Madman, and Rush Week. The one new thing to me is Nightmare Weekend.

Jonathan Correia: 5:09

I went I went hard

James Jay Edwards: 5:12

Yes you did.

Jonathan Correia: 5:13

I did uh, you know I hadn't bought anything from Severin in a while so I hit up their sale and I got a lot of the new titles especially Night of the Demon I mean fuck dude after the episodes description I had to I had to I did one of the bundles so they dropped the price a little bit and then Vinson i i did the I did the pledge, I subscribe to the full year so next year I will be drowning in Vinson titles and partner neck. I'm very I'm just excited to clear my monthly wallet so that I have more room to get the partner labels because I've been enjoying everything that I've been getting from them from you know, AGFA of course and and Utopia has been really good Altered Innocence has been putting out some really amazing stuff. So I'm really looking forward to it actually, for Thanksgiving, I thought it was a bit festive to kind of dive into some AGFA so I jumped into the Alien Abduction, no Thanksgiving movie, I figured I'd go with the other a family feature and I want really wanted to watch What Really Happened to Baby Jane. But the thing is, is I had never seen Whatever Happened to Baby j. So So Thanksgiving morning, Lindsey woke up to me starting Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. And she is a trooper because she sat through all of it with me. And it was incredible. I because I know a little bit about Hagploitation. And I And I've seen the parent other parodies of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, I didn't realize how much of a good film that actually is like, I know it's been parodied to death, but it's like legitimately well made, there's great performance is totally understandable, Betty Davis being nominated for Academy Award, but of course, Joan Crawford wouldn't let her you know, have her have her moment God that I ended up reading a bit about their feud, and it is insane. But What Really Happened to Baby Jane was just pure, pure bliss. It was because of you know, of course, in my household we watched Dragula a lot and it was brilliant seeing some of like the early years of drag and the early being, you know, seedlings of that type of humor and growing in the short films what a great collection so if you So yeah, if you're if you're missing from your collection act was released of What Really Happened to Baby James and the films of the Gay Girls Riding Club. You're missing a big hole in your collection because those films are just so schlocky so much fun, so ridiculous and over the top and just a hell of a good time. Now I have to watch All About Eve in order for me to be able to watch the drag parody of that one. So thank you, gay girls riding club for me to be a bit more cultured before becoming diving into the schlock again.

James Jay Edwards: 8:09

Like I said, most of what I've been watching has been like award screeners. I've been buried and stuff like Liquorice Pizza and Being the Ricardos and Belfast and crap like that. But there's a couple of cool things I've come across that are kind of horrorish, not even horror adjacent, but they've got cool little horror things going on with them. One is the Tragedy of Macbeth. This is an adaptation obviously, of Macbeth, by Joel Cohen, not the Coen Brothers, just Joelle and of course, Francis McDormand is in it and Denzel Washington, but what's really Horrory about it is the way that it shot. It's almost like an old German expressionists movie. It's in black and white, and long shadows, real disjointed sets, and it's just real abstract. So it's really well made from like, it just makes you uncomfortable to watch. It's like Nosferatu or Callegari you know, that kind of thing. So The Tragedy Macbeth, check that one out. And also there's this movie called mass. Oh, no, that one. It's not horror at all. It's basically about four people who get in. It's two couples, and they're put into a room to talk. And there's a reason they're there. They have something in common I don't want to go in it. the reveal of it is masterfully done. But the thing that is kind of hoary about this as it was written directed by Fran Kranz, I think is how you say his name, who was a stoner dude in cabin in the woods. And it is so crazy that the stoner dude from cabin in the woods, made a movie like Mass, you know, and it also stars and doubt who was in Compliance, which is you know, you if you've been within the sound of my voice in the last eight years, you've heard me talk about Compliance. And also, what's your head? Martha Plimpton is the Goonies Yeah, It's pretty cool little movie, but I just thought it was funny that when it said I it said Britney direct by Fran Kranz. I'm like I know that name. And I looked him up and I'm like all dude. Guy. The other cool thing that has been brought to me by awards and this is horror centric, so we were gonna talk about this Titane pain. Oh my god.

Jonathan Correia: 10:22

That was one of my day before Thanksgiving viewings, because I woke up the day before Thanksgiving in the mood to watch something festive. So first, I watched Standard Operating Procedure. I don't know why that made me think Thanksgiving. But yeah, then I watched the Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning. And then Titane so I had a really good you know, trip feature. That was apparently Thanksgiving.

James Jay Edwards: 10:45

It's Julia corner who won? Can you know, Best Director, she made Raw a few years back. And if you thought Raw had some holy shit moments in it, you have not seen anything yet. Titane has just so many just squirmy uncomfortable. And it's like, is it really going here? Yeah, it's going here. Oh,

Jacob Davidson: 11:06

yeah. Titane doesn't just cross the line. It runs over it repeatedly.

Jonathan Correia: 11:10

Yeah, but and it's it's definitely one of those ones where it's just so beautifully shot and plays really well. There was never a low moment in that movie. And there was moments there were moments where you weren't super uncomfortable, but those that time was very sparse. And and few I one of the greatest things is that the final the climax of the film, let's say the final act there's there's this when it's happening I'm trying not to spoil but when it's happening you guys know the scene I'm talking about my partner Lindsey just turned to me goes wow, what a weird movie. And I just turned it when really you're gonna say that now? An hour 20 minutes do it. You finally hit your breaking point.

Jacob Davidson: 11:55

You know watching the movie and you know that scene it the weird thing was that it made me think of this bit from Aqua Teen Hunger Force. You know, they always had the intros with that guy, Dr. Weird would have like, kind of random intros is there there was this one where he was next to a lawn mower and pronounced, gentlemen, Behold, I have made love to this machine. And now upon retrospect, I ask why. If you've seen the movie, you'll get

James Jay Edwards: 12:23

as good as say you're dangerously walking the spoiler line, but it is dangerously. Oh my god. Titane it's

Jonathan Correia: 12:33

absolutely fabulous. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 12:34

it's kind of a it's kind of a spiritual soulmate to Cronenberg's Crash in a million ways.

Jacob Davidson: 12:43

Both extremely horny and

James Jay Edwards: 12:47

Titane if you get turned on by Titane though, there's something wrong with you. Cronenberg's actually is kind of sensual.

Jacob Davidson: 12:54

Yeah, Cronenberg is more sexual wall. Titan is more about I feel like gender. It was more like it's about gender.

Jonathan Correia: 13:01

First of all, let's not kink shame, anybody. We're not here to judge what consenting adults and cars do. Okay.

James Jay Edwards: 13:10

Hey, I said that Crash was sensual. Okay, it's not enough.

Jonathan Correia: 13:16

I mean, I listen. I disagree. But, you know, that's that's just not my thing. You know, we all vibe at different frequencies. I get it. But yeah, definitely the the fire truck dance scene in Titane was probably one of the most uncomfortable viewing experiences I've had recently of just like, Oh, no one in that room is comfortable with what's going on here. And I and I feel like I'm one of them. Right now.

James Jay Edwards: 13:47

No one watching is comfortable with what's going

Jonathan Correia: 13:49

on. I've never related to a shirtless Fire Man. As much as I did turn that scene.

James Jay Edwards: 13:56

Another cool thing that I want and it's not it's not horror, but it doesn't crazy. Nic Cage, Pig. Have you guys seen Pig?

Jonathan Correia: 14:03

Oh, yeah. Hey, yeah, we didn't talk about pig last episode.

James Jay Edwards: 14:07

No, we did not. Oh, cuz I hadn't seen it yet. I think,

Jacob Davidson: 14:11

oh, it's such an amazing movie because it's not the kind of Nicolas Cage movie you expect

James Jay Edwards: 14:15

it? And it's not what I thought. When you hear about pig basically, Pig. The short elevator pitch is Nicolas Cage, the truffle Hunter who's pig who helps him get these truffles, his pig napped and he goes on a mission to get his pig back. I was expecting it to be frickin John Wick with a pig. But it is not at all it's a surprisingly emotional movie. Actually.

Jonathan Correia: 14:40

It has Nick cages best performance since Adaptation. Hands down. Like

Jacob Davidson: 14:45

I cried. That movie made me cry. It is yeah, it's either.

Jonathan Correia: 14:49

I did a we did a cage double feature of that with Prisoners of the Ghostland and what a stark difference of performance between the two. Not saying These bad in that movie, but prisoners was just like totally absolutely different like I've always

James Jay Edwards: 15:05

said Nick Cage should have retired after 1997 Because he'll never have a year like that again because he did Face Off and Con Air Pig makes me glad he didn't retire and he's he's done movies that I've liked. But yeah, Pig Pig is the best Nic Cage we've seen in a long time.

Jonathan Correia: 15:23

Yeah, absolutely phenomenal film. Yeah.

Jacob Davidson: 15:26

And you know what else I so actually um, I managed to catch the new Resident Evil movie Resident

Evil: 15:32

Welcome to Raccoon City, huh? If either of you seen them,

Jonathan Correia: 15:36

no, but I you are the resident, the resident Resident Evil fanatic. So Oh, yeah. Let us know what it was it was it closer to the to the games because that it looks like that. It was promising.

Jacob Davidson: 15:48

Yes. No, it it promised and it delivered. It was as close to the video games as you could get. Yeah, it's it's funny because it's an adaptation of the first two games. So it was just kind of a weird way of kind of distilling that but it was interesting how they went about it. And of course it was directed by Johan is Roberts, the guy that did you know the 47 Meters Down movies and Strangers: Pray at Night? And it was interesting because you know this is a resin evil movie but I think compared to the Paul WS Anderson movies, it had a lower budget, but it kind of worked to its advantage because you know, a lot of people forget that the original Resident Evil games were heavily inspired by horror movies and particularly low budget horror movies. And yeah, so you got the intersecting storylines you got Chris Redfield and Jill Valentine up at the mansion and you got Claire Redfield and Lena has Kennedy at the station, and also very underrated. Donal Logue plays cheap. The Police Chief Brian is saying he is great in it and he's a real scene stealer. And yeah, then it's got a lot of zombies. You got mutants, you got monsters mostly packed a lot practical effects. You know, there's a lot of CG but also a lot of practical effects, which I appreciate. So yeah, you know, as a fan of the games, and as a fan of this type of horror, I thought it was a great time. I really enjoyed it. Nice. Yeah, I do hope they get a bigger budget for any potential sequels, though because yeah, I mean, it was good. It's just you know, I felt like they could have done more with more.

Jonathan Correia: 17:20

I hope that if they do have another long franchise stemming from this one that the final one is called You Are Now Leaving Raccoon City. You know, like it's the other side of the

Jacob Davidson: 17:30

I mean, honestly, my endgame would be hoping we get a live action adaptation of you know, some of the later particularly horror resin evil games like Resident Evil seven, and Resident Evil eight, because man, those things would be amazing on the big screen.

Jonathan Correia: 17:45

I'd be pretty dope. One thing that I got recently was the new Addams Family, 4k release, which if you have talked to me outside of this episode, over the last few months, I've been plowing my way through the original series, so it was nice to go back and revisit the 1991 adaptation because that's the one I grew up on. But let me tell you guys, not only did they restore in 4k, but this cut is unrated. That's right, Addams Family unrated. Now before I already see you, James, your mind is going straight into the gutter. It you will see

James Jay Edwards: 18:20

Gomez and Morticia are already very sexual characters. So how much more is it? I mean,

Jonathan Correia: 18:29

first of all, get your mind out of the gutter. Right? Uh, no, it's it's actually, it's funny because it's called the more mum with more Mooska addition ants. And that's literally it. And they added it, they added back in the full Mamushka dance which opens up with when it first starts with Gomez singing about brothers, and then fester joins in. And they do a whole bit about brothers. You know, the Wright Brothers couldn't you know George couldn't do it without him, you know, his brother and I keep going and then it ends with them doing the sword dancing bit. So instead of that being the beginning that that was the only additional thing but it was awesome to see and it's sad that they had that they cut it due to test audiences going. The whole brother bit sucks, but I'm just really glad to that they did add in this great footage and that is just more Raul. Julia, you know, I mean, like, you can't go wrong with having more footage of him, you know, especially as Gomez. It was brilliant. I do have to say in watching the original 64 Show and going into this. The differences are not quite night and day but they're very different. And I I've got to say I think I like the original TV show a lot more than the 90s ones. Sorry, guys. I know that's a little sacrilege.

James Jay Edwards: 19:47

Why are you apologizing?

Jonathan Correia: 19:49

Because, you know, the 9091 version is so iconic. I just I like that the 64 version, they they're more so just really weird. You know, like just in it In a general like, just weirdness sense, whereas like the 91 version, they're more of a horror weird, if that makes sense. So like Wednesday is just like a normal kid. But her interests are just weird as opposed to being looking like a sociopath the entire time and talking in a monotone voice. She's just like a little kid who says little kid things just the opposite of what a little kid would say. Plus the original series has his great bit early on where Wednesdays always sitting in a tree and just says weird shit to people like an Avalon girl. Lady, you know that makeup door to door. Avon? Avon? There we go. Avon lady comes up. She goes, Oh, Is your mother home? She goes Yes, but she doesn't need anymore. And she's like, Oh, well, you know, maybe she just needs some like powder for her face. She Oh no. She uses baking soda. And just like deadpan face. Delivery is just perfect. Just Wednesday, just like little feet kicking up in the tree. Just Oh no. She puts baking powder on her face. Like, that's weird. That's a weird thing to do.

James Jay Edwards: 20:58

Have you seen the Addams Family to the new one that just came out the animated one?

Jonathan Correia: 21:03

No, I haven't. Yeah. Yeah. That came out in October.

James Jay Edwards: 21:08

Yeah, it's pretty cute. It's I mean, it's, it's pretty much take somewhere you expect they go on vacation. And I mean, Lerch steals the show. He's the best part. But Uncle Fester the whole time is turning into a squid. And they explain it in the beginning as to why it's happening. But it's really kind of weird. It's like, Okay, now we're getting like, like, yeah, get your mind out of the gutter kind of.

Jonathan Correia: 21:34

Yeah, well, I like the the first animated one they did. I thought that a went back to its comic roots quite a bit. And the one thing that I didn't like was a lot of people said that the animated Fester wasn't, they were like, Oh, he's not hot. Like, oh, why did they make him so there was a lot of people saying that animated Fester was unfuckable which I thought was a really weird critique to give to a cartoon first of all, but hey, again, we're not here to kink shame. But also he's voiced by Oscar Isaac.

James Jay Edwards: 22:03

Oh, wait, are you talking Gomez or fester?

Jonathan Correia: 22:05

Gomez? Sorry.

James Jay Edwards: 22:07

Yeah. Say fester has never been fuckable.

Jonathan Correia: 22:11

Christopher Lloyd's. No, I mean,

Jacob Davidson: 22:13

yeah, I remember when he board that like that apron and he had the hairdo and two in Addams Family Values.

Jonathan Correia: 22:22

I will also say Jackie Coogan as Uncle Fester in the original series. Definitely was he was a ladies man. And that's the thing too, in the original. He's in the original show. He's mortician uncle. But like in the in the in the later versions he's Gomez's brother, and then they made grandmama what she grandmama was morticians mom, but then the later ones these guys it's like, so she just doesn't have any family anymore. i it i think they make reference to that in the musical for my understanding. But yeah, the animated one is definitely on my list. I'm uh, I do like, I will consume almost any Addams Family material. Although I am not a big fan of Family Values. That one is a bit low on my list. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 23:12

another thing that I did get a chance to see which I absolutely loved. Ghostbusters Afterlife. You guys see that?

Jacob Davidson: 23:19

Yeah,

Jonathan Correia: 23:20

I actually revisited 2016 Ghostbusters. And so the call be right beforehand, and I didn't

James Jay Edwards: 23:26

mind that one. A lot of people hate it. I know. It's the worst of the series, but I didn't mind it. I thought it was pretty good.

Jonathan Correia: 23:34

I like it's one of those things where it's like I don't think it's I wouldn't say worse. Is it the weakest I guess but that's still a strong franchise that Ghostbusters. All all four I think are really good. But it

James Jay Edwards: 23:46

got the the weakest movie in your franchise. You're you've made an awesome franchise because yeah, it's a good movie.

Jonathan Correia: 23:52

I can see people not vibing with 2016. But I don't I don't understand, like the hatred people have. But I think I'm Ama Lea, responded to my tweet about it best where she just said misogyny. I was like, oh, yeah, no, no,

James Jay Edwards: 24:06

that's what but the thing about it Afterlife is I don't think they're answering the misogyny for that. But basically McKenna Grace steals the movie. And it's her movie. It absolutely is her movie. And and it's funny because they try to make it a mystery who her grandpa is. But you can tell when you see the character. She's the spitting image of. But yeah, it's I mean, it's, I've heard a lot of people compare it to the force awakens in that it kind of just mirrors the first movie, but that's the mythology. And they make a point of saying why the same thing is happening. So yeah, it's it's true, but yeah, it and by the time you get to that climax, you're you know, not gonna spoil anything, but I mean, you were talking about you cried during pig. Oh, I was sobbing at the end of afterlife.

Jonathan Correia: 24:58

Oh, yeah, no I was definitely cry. It was actually weird. I saw that mission Tiki and there was at least 10 hearses at the screening. Which was interesting. But um, yeah, no I I def I am definitely one of those people that made the comparisons to Force Awakens and what they did in like bringing it back. But after like did it better in that they took a lot of the points and other things from the first movie and brought it back with this one. But they did it in a way that it wasn't it didn't feel like retreading a whole lot. You know, I did a little bit in the in the third act, I will admit, we did every treaded a bit, but once

James Jay Edwards: 25:38

you figure out where it's going, you know exactly where it's got, you know, I mean, it's Yeah, but

Jonathan Correia: 25:43

but it also works in continuing the story continuing the franchise. I'm a little upset there wasn't there was almost no mention to the events of Ghostbusters two because I fucking love Ghostbusters two. But you know, that's that's just being nitpicky. I think they did a really

James Jay Edwards: 26:00

neat the events of Ghostbusters one in that universe are legendary. They're like, Oh, yeah, the New York City ghosts that you know,

Jonathan Correia: 26:08

but the Statue of Liberty walking across New York isn't like known as like that, like that's not is known as like the state puff. Like, come on. Yeah, but, but again, I thought there was some really great performances. There was definitely a lot of fanfare you know, the safe put little Stay Puft Marshmallow guys everywhere. Did was totally unneeded plot wise. But do I still love it? Of course. It's like the fuck the eagle scene in The Big Lebowski. It did nothing to for the plot, but I can't imagine that movie without it.

James Jay Edwards: 26:37

There's a ton of fans are like, at one point. Some characters end up in jail. And they say we get a phone call and the sheriff goes, who you gonna call? And you're like, Oh, come on, you know, there's a ton of little things like that, um, little weights and nods but yeah, but but for fans. That's what fans of Ghostbusters want to see. So it's not like an eye rolling thing. It's like,

Jonathan Correia: 27:00

yeah, you know, they they did a lot of like what JJ Abrams had did for this first Star Trek and Star Wars where there was a lot of winks and nods you know, but it what they did it better as it's the only kind of way I can describe it. Because like, especially Abrams Star Trek, we're super guilty of like doing more references than actually doing Star Trek, you know where it's like, you're he was basically doing a Star Wars movie with Star Trek references throughout it. Whereas this one, it was a Ghostbusters movie with callbacks to the first one more so but it's a hell of a fun time. It's a silly movie. I think. I think that a lot of people are expecting these movies to be as good as the first one. But the first one was a Lightning in a Bottle situation. It was just like, a lot of things came together and to create what it was. And you know what? I don't think we need a if there is another Ghostbusters movie experience. The first one Fuck Yeah, that's awesome. But like, again, they're good movies. They're fun movies, and they don't need to be anything more than that. At the end of the day, you know, just well made fun movies is is what we need from Ghostbusters.

James Jay Edwards: 28:13

And that's gonna take us into our topic right Correia.

Jonathan Correia: 28:17

Yeah, cuz I have a lot more opinions about people's opinions. When it comes to Ghostbusters. You have opinions

James Jay Edwards: 28:25

about the opinions? Well, let's hear it.

Jonathan Correia: 28:28

So our main topic this week is Yeah, cuz we touched a little bit about it just now but we want to talk about toxic fandom. As as in in with a highlight or a spotlight on the Ghostbusters franchise because

James Jay Edwards: 28:43

we've talked about this before. Yeah, but with the new Ghostbusters I think we want to we want to revisit it because there's also more that's happened since then with like, you know, Candy Man and Black Christmas, you know, that just, we this topic is never going to go away. And it's not

Jonathan Correia: 29:01

because at the end of the day horror fans are very passionate, we're very, you know, we love our stuff. That's why there's so much merchandising around it. And that's why we cling to those titles that we have of gore hounds and horror fiends and horror fans you know, we're very passionate but with that there's there's a lot of abuse that happens there's a lot of gatekeeping there's a lot of just straight up toxic fandom and I me personally, I've you know, grew up watching Ghostbusters. Of course, you know, I remember being a kid going, you know, and with watching with a bunch of other kids going Oh, yeah. Which part of the state puff Are you gonna eat? I'd go for the arm. I go for the leg. You know, I didn't realize how and I knew it was a popular movie, but I didn't realize there was a huge fan base around it, you know, like passionate one until 2016. When Answer the Call came out, and I didn't realize that people were that big of assholes about something as silly as Ghostbusters. It's a it's a it's a silly movie. It's a fun movie and I love it. But like at the end of the day, it's it's it was just insane seeing with death threats, seeing all that just surrounding fun movies, you know, and 2016 itself. It's, it's a fine movie, it tried it took the familiar notes of the first film, and made did some original takes with it. And like, just genuinely was that you could tell that the actors had fun with it. And they did pulled off some really cool special effects the fight scene at the end with all the ghosts in central and Central Square was awesome. You know, I thought it was a lot of fun. So yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 30:42

no, no movie is worth sending a death threat over. And, you know, it's just it was, it was pretty absurd. Just the sheer chaotic and rage filled response people gave to that movie even before it came out. Like it was, you know, it's easy to forget just what a firestorm It was around that movie. And of course, yeah, it was pointed out by James and Jon, you know, just that, you know, not to that extent, but yeah, there were the controversies over like Candyman or the Black Christmas remake that, you know, just you know, you don't have to like the movie. But you know, so many people just went over the line. It was because of, ya know, some kind of sense of entitlement and fandom you know, just toxic mess.

James Jay Edwards: 31:29

And this is before they've even seen a single frame of the movie with with Ghostbusters Answer the Call. I mean, it started when announcements were made that you've got Kristen Wiig, and, you know, and Leslie Jones, I mean it. As soon as they announced the cast people like, you know, puffing out their chest about it, Twitter

Jacob Davidson: 31:48

was just a wasteland. And

James Jay Edwards: 31:51

here is a news flash. I don't know who needs to hear this. But no remake is going to erase the movie you love from your childhood.

Jonathan Correia: 32:00

Now, if anything, it gives an opens up an opportunity for a new special edition blu ray with a new feature rant about its history coming out like

James Jay Edwards: 32:09

No, no amount of female lead cast Ghostbusters is ever going to erase the one that you you know, love from 1985. So just don't see it. Let other people enjoy it if they want to. But you know, it's not ruining your childhood.

Jonathan Correia: 32:26

And if if a sequel or reboot does come out that isn't good, or isn't as well made. You know, maybe it'll lead more people to the original, you know, maybe people will go hey, I didn't like that. Maybe I will check out the original and see the difference. Or, hey, I really liked that. Let me go check out the original. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing that more people are getting into the thing that you love. I feel like people need to hear that. You know, it's a good thing that a lot of people like the thing that you like, you know, I know. We love cult films, we love the underdog. So that's why we spent so much money at Vin Syn and Severin and all those we love those little weird titles. But it's good that these things are getting more and I know especially like Ghostbusters, that's already huge. It's a whole thing they have they have a production companies Ghost Corps that's just supposed to be making Ghostbuster movies. You know, that's huge. And that's good that more people are liking the thing that you like. And I know that Candyman does that was brought up. That was some weird, really weird takes on why people didn't like that. They're like, Oh, Candyman is woke now.

James Jay Edwards: 33:35

What? Did you not see the other Candymans? Because he's always been woke?

Jonathan Correia: 33:40

Don't, don't get me wrong there. There's a lot of there's a lot of really great critiques out there on what the original Candyman did, right and did and didn't do and where it dropped the ball. And it's takes on race and inequality and things of that nature. And they are all very valid and all that. But to say that it wasn't, you know, already critiquing or already making statements and points about, you know, race and things of that nature in this country is absolutely ridiculous. It's from his origin story on like, it's in there. And yeah, so that just that, and again, these these movies we're discussing aren't bad movies. I mean, well, I mean, the recent Black Christmas, you had a little bit harder of an argument there on that one,

Jacob Davidson: 34:34

but again, not worth sending death threats over. No.

Jonathan Correia: 34:37

But again, these these are bad movies. It's just movies that you didn't vibe with. And that's okay. I I don't find with a lot of movies that people really like the Escape Room movies. I was not on that frequency with those movies. And that's okay. I'm not gonna threaten anyone over that. I'm not gonna bash it. I can see the appeal. I can see why people would like it. It just wasn't my cup of tea that Happy Death Day Movies. Again, just weren't my vibe. And that's okay. You know, not every movie needs to be made for Jon Correia. Not every movie needs to be made for Jacob Davison, Jay Edwards, or you or anyone else. And you know what? That is supposed to happen if every movie was made for Jon Correia, they would get so boring. It's so boring. I, we need stuff to not gel with us. We need stuff. We need to have stuff that lights a bit of a fire under us and go, I don't like this movie because of this. Because that's what leads you to find what you do love.

James Jay Edwards: 35:31

And the thing is you, you need to kind of change your attitude towards movies like this. Like, as an example, no one was more skeptical than me when they announced they're remaking the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And it's almost 20 years ago at this point. 18 years. That movie when I did see it scared the hell out of me. And it's one of my favorite remakes. You know, same same with the Friday the 13th Reboot one it's you know, I'm not going to talk about the Nightmare on Elm Street one because people were right about that one, but the, you know, the maniac remake.

Jonathan Correia: 36:06

Oh, love it.

James Jay Edwards: 36:08

It's incredible. And it's really like, wait a minute, Frodo is in that you can't make a horror movie with Frodo he guess? Fuck What? Yeah, you can and he's good.

Jonathan Correia: 36:18

First of all, Elijah Wood has made some of my favorite horror movies over these last 20 or so he's even before the Lord of the Rings. He was in The Faculty so fuck off. He can definitely do horror. Like come on. And The Good Son, I don't know. That's a different argument for another day. But But yeah, it's I was also to bring up another one that I was definitely like, he can't do that. Doctor sleep. Do a sequel to The Shining. Yeah, there's I have opinions about the book, But the fruit of the movie just just as like a thing. It's like, yeah, don't get me wrong, Mike Finegan I think we have you know, praised him many many times on this show. But just that task of like, you're gonna adapt Doctor Sleep. cinematically when there's already a very different take on The Shining, that cinematic, you're gonna somehow blend those two worlds together into one I was very skeptical about that being pulled off and it was one of my favorite movies of the year it's still great holds up fantastically. So I mean, you know, you can have opinions going into stuff but like, if you don't allow yourself to open up to a film then why the fuck are you spending an hour and a half two hours of your life on it? If you're just gonna sit there and be pouty pus, you know, and not be open to it then like why why why waste your time?

Jacob Davidson: 37:38

I've got a partial answer to that because I feel like a lot of these situations especially the last several years have been driven by people who are acting in bad faith for trying to get rage clicks, you know, like I cannot tell you how many you know, like particularly right wing Grifters have tried to capitalize on internet rage and fandoms you know, you've seen it see it in the big ones like Star Wars and you know, Marvel and stuff in DC stuff like that. And of course it bleeds into horror every now and then. Because yeah, like I saw some dude made a video about you know, oh Candymans gone woke. And you know, it's like clearly somebody who has not seen the original and doesn't care and just wants to get views you know, just a lot you know, a lot of this you know, kind of boils down to just, you know, people getting people angry for the sake of profit.

James Jay Edwards: 38:32

Alien is not a horror movie because horror can't be in space. Oh, yeah.

Jacob Davidson: 38:37

I remember that rice and and

Jonathan Correia: 38:39

again, people are entitled to their opinions. And that's okay. What was not and we all agree that that the Alien was a sci fi horror thing. I get it. It's a bad take. But also guys, it's it's okay to have bad takes. It's okay to have bad opinions. It's okay to differentiate on that. i The horror community to attack that person who just posted something that she they said to their friends. And that's the insane thing. My partner Lindsey was brought up this point the other day, it's insane that someone can just have say something that they would say to their friends and then an entire community just gone at them at their throat over it. And like, I'm sure that person was just like so sick and tired of getting. Oh, well. What about Aliens? Oh, what about Aliens? Oh, what about Alien 3, no one's gonna say resurrection with that but like, it's like you get it after a certain point and that's fine. And there are those Grifters too who are just there to stoke fire are Armand White is one of the most notorious ones. He's the guy. There was a period where people were just posting his reviews because it was like, Oh, here's the one negative review for Toy Story 3, and of course, that guy, but of course he's going to do that because that's going to drive clicks to his website that's going to get him notoriety. Him and I had a little thing last year because of his take on. David Burns American Utopia. which I did not feed into it the second I said something and he responded, I was like, nope, not not even gonna engage. Not even gonna engage. Yeah, de escalate. Yeah, just the fact that I gave him some set his name on here just

James Jay Edwards: 40:13

And Ama Lea is right. It's misogyny is the like adds fuel to him. And, you know, it's not it's not worth it. It's it's not I don't see, I hate watch movies. That's fine. You know, like I definitely watched we have seen some stuff where I'm like, Oh, this is gonna be bad. I can't wait to just like tear it apart. But, you know, it's, it's, there's, there's fun, hate watchings. And then there's just like, going after things. And I feel like it's just it's not worth people's times, it's not worth putting that psychological weight onto people for it. Again, you can not vibe with Ghostbusters 2016. And that's okay, if they had a very specific humor, very specific styling to a lot of it. And I don't understand how anyone could hate on Kate McKinnon in that movie, she was just giving off the best vibes and that, but like, I get it, I can see the sun not as some people not getting that appeal. But like, Jesus Christ, I went back and read a lot of those takes from that time when that came out is like, I just talked to your mother with that mouth. reason why a lot of people hated on that Ghostbusters. Because if you made that same movie with four men in the leads, now, it wouldn't have been the same because a lot of the comedy was based around those four women. But I'll bet that it wouldn't have gotten all the hate.

Jacob Davidson: 41:35

Oh, no. Without question. Because get it because you can even compare like it didn't get nearly as caustic a response as Afterlife did, which is like kids, but most of them were boys.

Jonathan Correia: 41:51

And isn't that isn't that the the funny thing about 2016 is that like a major part of his, like a major plot point is the fact that the main villain in that movie was like some Incel guy white guy who was rejected, who felt rejected from the world and needed to take his anger out on on everyone, especially women like how, like they were even just making the movie, they already knew a lot of the response. And they they took it on head on and I respect that. And you know what? Afterlife was getting a lot of these type of like, I remember like the first the week before after like came out. I saw so many headlines that were just like afterlife more like, you know, beyond the grave or like, I don't know, some stupid headline where they tried to do some clever wordplay about how bad it was. And again, like just saw so many like, like just trashing it. And it's like, yeah, I get it. It's not as good as Ghostbusters one. That's fine. Like, it's no like, it's insane. It's not like they they made a bad movie. It's not like they took did techniques and stuff that made a bad movie. They just made a movie that wasn't as lightning in a bottle. And that's

James Jay Edwards: 43:00

honestly, anybody who thinks Ghostbusters Afterlife is a bad movie has a heart that's three sizes too small? Because it is. I mean, it's got all the feels, and it's sure it's reminiscent of the plot of the first one. But like I said, there's a reason for that. And they go over the reason for that. But I mean, you know, people were complaining that and they were crying misogyny, because they weren't pushing McKenna Grace's action figure in ADS. And there's a reason for that they're selling those action figures in pairs. And the one that she's paired up with is a major spoiler for the movie. So Jacob, if you haven't looked at that, don't don't. But yeah, that's why that's why they kind of Grace's action figure isn't in all the ads because they don't want to spoil the movie for people.

Jonathan Correia: 43:55

But it there is there is, you know, good kindling to that argument of why isn't this action figure being pushed as much as the other because there is a huge lack of female action figures being pushed out there. And generally when it is it's very gendered. And on top of that, there has been plot points being changed in major movies because they feel like girls don't buy action figures as much as boys. The whole plot in Iron Man 3 was changed for from Rebecca Hall's character being the main villain to making guide forcing Guy Pierce's character to have some weird and stupid villain plot because they were like, Oh, no one's gonna buy a villain action figure if it's a woman,

James Jay Edwards: 44:37

they buried raise action figure from this the Star Wars sequels and you know, they they use Finn and Poe instead of Rey because just like you said, they're like, oh, women don't want to buy you know, girls don't want to buy action figures.

Jonathan Correia: 44:52

They canceled Young Justice which is one of the best DC properties out there made for TV because girls like the movies that show more than boys, and they said girls, because of merchandising don't buy as many action figures. And it's like,

Jacob Davidson: 45:07

yeah, don't get me started. Especially animation. It's absurd. The number of times like a show is successful, but it's successful with the girls, so they gotta cancel it. Yeah. Yeah, no, that has seemed to come up a number of times. Like this is not like a rare incident with Young Justice. Like it's happened with multiple shows where it's like, they only wanted boys but girls like it too. So whoops, guess we got to cancel it.

Jonathan Correia: 45:29

It's insane. At the end of the day, guys, movies are a form of entertainment and I feel like people sometimes forget that that you know, you go it's a form of escapism you go into a dark room to be entertained and it's okay for movie to just be that entertaining like you know, go with people going into Ghostbusters Afterlife expecting to come out of there with like, a newfound opinion on life and to like the people are acting like that film was gonna solve all the emotional issues that therapy is for like if you want your growth your chain if you want to do work through some things go see a therapist like don't expect a moat very expensive blockbuster movie to do that for you. You know,

James Jay Edwards: 46:18

I have a I have a colleague in the San Diego Film Critics Society who even movies that he likes even movie Ito movies that that he gives positive use, you can always find something and be like, Oh, but what really bothered me about it and he'll like say some little plot hole. It's like, oh, just enjoy it. Just Just let yourself like the movie. You know, I realize you're a critic, but just let yourself enjoy it and it's okay to bring up

Jonathan Correia: 46:46

flaws and stuff. You know, like I definitely have a lot of issues with Afterlife they're very spoilery which is why I'm not going to discuss them but there is a lot of stuff that it's that Force Awakens bit that does a big grind it for me but you know it didn't stop me from enjoying the movie. It's okay to have a few flaws sometimes. If there's one thing that you know, the beautiful people have Vinegar Syndrome Severin that Cauldron Films, all those boutique title places are doing a they're doing great work. And it's because they're bracing films that have flaws. AGFA, but especially is putting out some of the most flawed movies of all time and giving them procedures movie.

James Jay Edwards: 47:31

I love Scary Movie. Not not not the Damon Wayans one.

Jacob Davidson: 47:36

The is regional horror ag for one.

James Jay Edwards: 47:39

Yeah. Who is it? Jonathan Hawks. Is that Yes. First Movie? Yeah, yes. And I love it. But yeah, it's really fun. And that's part of its charm, though, is how flawed it is. You know, you're like, there's something to be said about seeing a movie where you go, I could have done that. You know, it's

Jacob Davidson: 47:58

and that does remind me though, cuz actually during the Vinegar Syndrome sale, there has been some toxicity in the Facebook groups, like people getting mad and doing angry posts about the new releases complaining like, Oh, these movies suck Vinegar Syndrome sucks. And he was like, all these everything's super expensive. I'm not gonna buy two fingers stupid. If you're buying a you know, it's like, you know, just this stuff is getting ridiculous. Like, it's, you know, either they're, you know, just kind of venting in a not constructive fashion or, you know, they're just trolling, I don't know, but the thing I think the thing that a lot as well as down to is, you know, just people need to manage their anger. You know, because, like, you know, life Life is short. Like, do you really want to get this mad about a movie or a TV show or whatever, for reasons like these?

Jonathan Correia: 48:51

I think you hit a really good point. Just now Jacob too is being constructive with your criticism, because you can you can have, you can not vibe with something you can be constructive. I mean, that's one of the points I try to make with this podcast is to never be like, Oh, that movie sucks. Fuck that movie. That movie was the equivalent of that movie basically took the shit on my mom, you know? Because that's not creative.

James Jay Edwards: 49:17

Why do you always have to bring Muck up dude?

Jonathan Correia: 49:20

Except Muck Muck I will say was the equivalent of someone taking a shit on Joanne Korea. But no, but even then I've calmed down because at the end of the day, you know, it's it's not constructive. You know, I can if anything bring up the issues you have with it. We we have brought up Muck probably, you know, one that we unanimously agree is not a well made film.

James Jay Edwards: 49:46

I wonder how many people we have driven to check out Muck just out of morbid curiosity.

Jonathan Correia: 49:51

But like, the reason why we have stated the reasons why we don't like that that film exists

James Jay Edwards: 49:58

Special thanks to Lauren's ass It's because

Jonathan Correia: 50:01

of, of stuff that stems beyond fluff stuff that stems beyond filmmaking techniques. It's the fact that it is very misogynistic that

James Jay Edwards: 50:11

it is intentionally so yeah, it's not accidental, yeah, that it

Jonathan Correia: 50:15

comes off hateful at times with towards women and stuff like that fill those things are things that are worth, you know, being very loud and aggressive about I feel at least. But if it's just because the humor didn't vibe with you, you know, I mean, if you're gonna, if you're gonna be if you're gonna have a film that's filled with hateful messages, or violent messages, then yeah, I feel like that is the appropriate time to be outraged and whatnot. But if you're upset at the mere fact that your film is now starring women, that's stupid. I'm sorry. That's that's a that's, that's a stupid take. And it's, it's unneeded. And you're right there, there has been a lot of hate a lot, a lot of aggression in the vendor in Vin Syn fan groups. But also at the end of the day, if you're complaining about people spending $35 on a restoration of a C level movie that was only ever released, on VHS first of all, that's already a very niche thing. And we it time and time again, it's been proven that there are people out there that are willing to spend that kind of money on those kinds of restaurant restored films. And you know what, that's okay, let them have fun. Let let the let the guys collect slipcovers because they like slipcovers. Yeah, that's,

James Jay Edwards: 51:31

that's the thing. If it's too if you think it's too expensive, just don't buy it. No amount of Answer the Calls is gonna erase your childhood. So things can exist in the same world without destroying each other. So, you know, you don't have to think that you know, Jackie Earle Haley, did not erase Robert England.

Jonathan Correia: 51:56

Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. Funko Pops. Yeah, my thing. I think they're fucking ugly. I think I don't like their design. I don't like how they look. I think they're, they're not my thing. I do own action figures. Funko Pops will never own one. And across from Amoeba Music in LA, there's a Funko Pop store. It's ridiculous. It is huge. It's an entire floor. And in working on Black Friday at me, but I learned that there's always a massive line outside of it before they open. And for me, I'm like, that's, that's crazy. That's insane. But you know what, I took a look in there. If you're a Funko Pop fan, that store is fucking incredible. It's huge. It's huge. They have giant Funko Pops here. They have photo ops everywhere they have a obviously they sell a lot of fun goes there. And you can create your own there. That's sounds so awesome. For someone who likes Funko Pops. It sounds like going to one of those like ridiculously big Lego stores, which I never buy anything in there. But I like walking through them. They're fun. And so like, I get that, am I gonna go in there and buy a bunch of funk goes? No, but I think that's cool that people who do like those who do collect those have a place to go into and have that. I think that's that's a that's a cool thing, even though it's not my vibe, you know, and that's okay, but I'm not gonna go outside and protest that store and say your toys are stupid because that's that's a waste of time. We only have so much time left on this earth. Why? I don't understand the the sick. Pleasure people get out of just absolutely shitting on other people's thing.

James Jay Edwards: 53:33

And pick your battles. Don't it's not the movies are not worth getting that upset about. Yeah, if anything, you know, complain that they're trying to make voting harder. Yeah, you know, I mean, find something that matters. Yeah. And this is coming from a guy who spends his life watching movies. Movies don't matter that much. Yeah, I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for that.

Jacob Davidson: 53:58

No, I agree with you. 100% you know, that it's like we were talking about earlier, you know, it's all about, you know, using your energy constructively.

Jonathan Correia: 54:06

Yeah. Movies are important. You know, I understand people we all have, we can get emotionally tied to it. But there's something that said on set all the time, we're not here curing cancer. There's no reason to destroy our bodies over making a film. There's no reason to be threatening people over one that's made. And again, it's okay. Not every movie needs to be made for you. Not every movie needs to be made for me. And I think that form of diversity is beautiful. I think it's great. I you know, what, there's people out there that enjoy Muck and, you know, that's what they're there are I there's I haven't met those people. But you know, they're out there. And you know what? I guess that's okay. If you can overlook the misogyny if you can look over all that. I guess there's things to enjoy about it. And you know what, that's that's your thing. And that's your thing, I guess. I'm actually having a really hard time

James Jay Edwards: 55:05

proving that it's none of it is that important. In the end, it's just entertainment. So let it be entertainment. If it doesn't entertain you, that's fine. It'll entertain someone else.

Jonathan Correia: 55:16

Right? Because what we mean by that, it's like a Ghostbusters movie. It's not gonna change the world. There is definitely important films out there that are gonna raise awareness to issues that are important and possibly can change the world. Those definitely exists. There's, there's documentaries, there's narratives, there's indie darlings of Indies out there that have changed people's lives there. Once I've brought important issues. I'm sorry, Ghostbusters is not going to do that. I don't think I don't think Sony's gonna spend that much money and put their franchise on the line for an important, you know, wareness like that. But you know what they are gonna do? They're gonna let you escape those worldly issues for an hour and a half to be entertained by people busting ghosts.

James Jay Edwards: 55:58

And the fact that this movie is anchored by a 15 year old girl is not something to get pissed off

Jonathan Correia: 56:05

about. That's something to be absolutely ecstatic about.

James Jay Edwards: 56:08

Especially. She's amazing in it. That's yeah, so

Jonathan Correia: 56:11

this strange little girl just stole everyone's hearts, except for a few vocal few and again, at the end of the day, it's a it's a we have to remember it's a vote. It's a few very loud people. That's it. It's just a few because there are still like Ghostbusters answer the call made money. That movie did well, it did not fail at the box office. And neither has afterlife afterlife is doing really great at the box office. And, you know, pandemic times like I was gonna

James Jay Edwards: 56:39

say it in these times that say in more than it was in 2016. So, alright, let's call this one an episode. Let's stick a fork in it. So yeah, don't come at us with your hot takes about how we're wrong in this episode. If you respectfully disagree. Let's hear it. Yeah. open to

Jonathan Correia: 56:59

criticism.

Jacob Davidson: 57:00

Yeah, always constructive criticism. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 57:03

exactly. There you go. Are our theme songs by wrestle spirit? So go and give them a listen. Our artwork is by Chris Fisher. So go give him some love. You can find us at the Eye On Horror Twitter, the Eye On Horror Facebook, the Eye On Horror, Instagram iHorror. Calm, geez, any and just look up Eye On Horror anywhere. And we'll be there. And we will see you guys in a couple of weeks. Our next episode is going to be our top 10s of the year. Yeah. So start holding your breath for that because they're going to be good. And we will see you in a couple of weeks. So for me, James Jay Edwards.

Jonathan Correia: 57:43

I'm Jacob Davison and I'm Jonathan Correia.

James Jay Edwards: 57:45

Keep your Eye On Horror.