EOH Book Club W/Author Waylon Jordan

This episode, the guys welcome back author Waylon Jordan to talk about his new novella The Stop. We get some updates on the upcoming adaptation of his short story Deep in the Heart as an anthology film segment. We also discuss what we've been watching including reviews for Nia Dacosta's Candyman!

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Transcript

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James Jay Edwards: 0:25

Welcome to Eye On Horror The official podcast of iHorror.com. This is Episode 73 otherwise known as season four Episode 16 I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host Jacob Davison How you doing Jacob?

Jacob Davidson: 0:40

I'm fine fine like wine

James Jay Edwards: 0:44

you know I would you I thought we were just going to get the single word fine out of you but you went the extra mile. Also with us is your other other host Jon Correia How you doing great

Jonathan Correia: 0:56

great.

James Jay Edwards: 0:57

That was That was awkward.

Jonathan Correia: 0:59

That was one of the least convincing I'm fine but yet but you're stuck the landing with the fine like wine you are doing fantastic

Jacob Davidson: 1:12

I was watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force and it was something Meatwad said, thought it would be funny

Jonathan Correia: 1:19

No, no it's good. It's we're back to recording early in the morning again so I think we're all a bit dead inside.

Jacob Davidson: 1:26

Now I'm still waking up

James Jay Edwards: 1:28

and also with us you probably have heard him laughing already. So we're gonna bring him in right now we have back this is technically the three-peat but I think that we've had a couple false starts this is probably like his fifth appearance. Waylon Jordan, how you doing Waylon?

Waylon Jordan: 1:42

I'm great and always excited to be here with you guys.

Jonathan Correia: 1:46

Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back.

James Jay Edwards: 1:49

always excited to have you, now you and Kelly I think are tied for being three three guests. Although you do have those two false starts so you're more experienced I think

Waylon Jordan: 1:59

oh I definitely think I get more credit for being here more times whether those times actually made it to where people heard them or not. I was here

James Jay Edwards: 2:10

you've seen us at our worst because that with technical difficulties. What do you guys been watching? Have we all seen Candyman

Jacob Davidson: 2:19

I've seen Canyman

Waylon Jordan: 2:20

I've seen Canyman I have not gotten to see it yet.

James Jay Edwards: 2:23

We'll try not to spoil it but the three of us are gonna talk about

Jonathan Correia: 2:26

well also we almost said it four times just then, so it's almost good that Waylon hasn't seen it because we....

James Jay Edwards: 2:34

Oh come on, Candyman Candyman

Jonathan Correia: 2:36

No!!!!

James Jay Edwards: 2:39

What did you guys think?

Jacob Davidson: 2:40

I thought it was great.

James Jay Edwards: 2:42

I did too

Jacob Davidson: 2:43

Yeah. Did you know I wasn't 100% sure what to expect even with, you know, trailers and commercials going in. But I thought then this isn't really much of a spoiler, I thought it was a great continuation of the series.

James Jay Edwards: 2:55

You know, it's weird because it it is a sequel. It is it's a continuation. But it also, it's pretty much the same plot as the first one except you have an artist instead of a grad student, but it's you know, someone researching the myth. But the thing is, they go over, you know, it's a sequel because they go over the story of Helen from the first one, and it's part of the mythology now, so I thought it was really great how they handled that.

Jonathan Correia: 3:21

Oh, yeah, I thought it was very fantastic. Especially since like, it wasn't, it didn't feel like you know, like with Halloween 2018 It felt like we're cutting off all the sequels and stuff. It felt like it was just a continuation of the story that started with the first film, but it didn't like neglect what happened with the sequels? A some people like the sequels I had fun with you know, Farewell to the Flesh. You know,

James Jay Edwards: 3:44

Farewell to the Flesh is really good though. I actually think Farewell to the Flesh is quality.

Jonathan Correia: 3:49

I still haven't seen Day of the Dead. I do have a German blu ray coming in soon for it. Because, you know, I like to abuse myself by dropping $25 But no, I thought it was fantastically done. The acting was phenomenal. A lot of the cinematography was very simple, but very effective.

James Jay Edwards: 4:10

Lots of mirrors and I loved how they used the mirrors. so brilliant.

Jacob Davidson: 4:14

Even just that opening

James Jay Edwards: 4:15

or that elevator scene, where like, all of the elevator walls are mirrors. You're like, Dude, this Yeah

Jonathan Correia: 4:21

oh dude, as soon as like the first like appearance of Candyman happened through mirrors. I Lindsey and I saw that the drive and so I saw we you know, we can talk. I turned I was like, Fuck, we're gonna have to look at mirrors all the time. And every scene there was a mirror. I'm like, Where's it? Where's it? Where's it?

Jacob Davidson: 4:37

I just love the detail. Like, sometimes you're seeing or hearing bees and they're coming from inside the mirror.

Jonathan Correia: 4:43

Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 4:44

that was really, really creepy. And yeah, not just great mirror cinematography. is gonna sound weird. It kind of reminded me of Poltergeist 3 because there was so much mirror effects in that particular movie

Jonathan Correia: 4:58

Which Poltergeist 3 slaps

Jacob Davidson: 5:00

Yeah, and that that shit was in camera.

Jonathan Correia: 5:03

Poltergeist 3 kills like that was that was the first movie to scare the shit out of me as a kid.

Waylon Jordan: 5:07

So that movie gets so much hell but it really is a lot of fun. Yeah, it's that big high rise building and everything -- Chicago -- I guess. Yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun and yeah, again, Chicago. What's going on in Chicago? Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 5:22

Windy City, you guys got a lot of spooky shit happening. But I do want to take a quick moment to address people who were like, why did Candyman have to be so political? Just Just one question. Have you seen a Candyman before like fuck's sake do you know anything about his origins, like come on? Like it's it's embedded in it?

James Jay Edwards: 5:43

I actually thought that this one dial back the the socio political commentary I mean, it was clearly there and they talked about it. But in the end it didn't distract from it being a balls out slasher? Yeah. I mean, I was I was a little confused that people are going like I'm through with Candyman. It's like, Well, you know, yeah, this is your first Candyman. Because all of them all of them. Yeah.

Waylon Jordan: 6:06

Well, all of them have that in it. And and so many people. I don't know how they get through life. I don't know how they watch watch movies, you know, and and don't pick up on things. I mean, maybe they saw it when they were younger, and they just you know, never revisited it and they were too young to get it the first time around. That's a possibility. But yeah, yeah, of all the slasher films, candyman. I mean, it was there from the beginning. And it was like, right up front, you know, even in the way they changed it from the source material from the way that the the story was written by Clive Barker, you know, it took place in England and it was this pale, pasty white guy with blond hair and you know, and then they took it to Chicago and with just from the setting and everything else they did this this film was political from the beginning this franchise was

Jacob Davidson: 6:58

Oh yeah, I feel like a lot of these takes are disingenuous that are just a way to drive outrage clicks online. I knew as you know as soon as Candyman was going to be out like there was going to be all these outrage videos about Candyman calling woke or SJW or whatever and you know it's it's it's totally out there. It's a grift

Jonathan Correia: 7:22

that's just one of the funniest things I've heard all morning Candyman being woke like a woke candyman. That's just such a silly thing to even like, say like, do you actually believe it? I can't believe Candyman is woke now it's like what??

James Jay Edwards: 7:41

you have Jordan Peele producing it and Nia DaCosta directing. How What did you expect it?

Jonathan Correia: 7:47

I'm so excited for her career.

Waylon Jordan: 7:49

Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see what she does next. Just from what I've heard about this particular film. Yeah, I can't wait to see what she does.

Jacob Davidson: 7:56

I believe she's doing the new Captain Marvel movie.

Jonathan Correia: 7:59

The MA the Marvel's Yeah, yeah, very excited. Also, and I'm gonna say this because I was saying it a lot when I was watching HBO. HBO's Watchmen. But the lead Yahya Abdul-Mateen Yeah, I kept the main reason why we had to see it at the drive in and one still not entirely comfortable with yours, but also I knew that while watching Candy Man I would turn to Lindsey and go I know we came to see Candyman but I wasn't expecting so much man candy that dude like when he came up in Watchmen but I was like, holy shit who's this guy, fuck! There's a lot of that happening during but his character was very interesting as a Anthony in the new Candyman because he's the protagonist, but he's not necessarily a great guy, he's kinda a dick, and I really enjoy that in movies when you don't have like a like an extreme good person. Like there's a lot of conflict

Waylon Jordan: 9:00

clear cut protagonists

James Jay Edwards: 9:02

Helem in the first Candyman was kind of a bitch too.

Jonathan Correia: 9:05

Yeah

Jacob Davidson: 9:06

yeah, she's even called out on putting like her thesis above the people the actual people in Cabrini-Green.

Jonathan Correia: 9:12

and that was what was interesting with her especially when the accusations are going towards you're murdering these people because she's not a good person, but she's not bad enough to murder you know, and so it is one of those things where it's like, well, she's not a great person. So I guess you could murder it's like, well, how are all of you in this movie making those very up until like, when the best friend gets murdered in the first but then it's like, okay, I can the evidence is very strong, although she actually did kill the dog or she was there covered in blood and that person's apartment man, Candyman made a really good case in that first movie. He made that evidence very clear.

James Jay Edwards: 9:51

Alright, let's let's move on. I want I saw something last night that I don't want to talk too much about because we already did, but I saw the Suicide Squad.

Jacob Davidson: 10:00

Oh nice

James Jay Edwards: 10:02

The reason I actually watched the Suicide Squad is because it's leaving HBO max today. So I was like, Okay, I procrastinated enough. I know it's not supposed to be a comedy, but I could not stop laughing through that whole movie. It's it's Jacob nailed it. It is a high budget Troma movie. That is so much fun. I've just that opening scene where like, you know, you don't want to spoil anything but it is the opening scene where basically like all these people you think our main characters are not

Jacob Davidson: 10:31

Suicide Squad. A lot of them are gonna die. Yeah, as

James Jay Edwards: 10:34

soon as they let you know what TDK stands for. I just about lost it. Yeah.

Waylon Jordan: 10:42

Yeah, like the the most useless superpower of all time.

Jacob Davidson: 10:48

Definitely played for comedy.

Waylon Jordan: 10:50

It was really funny to me. I I turned to my husband when we started watching that and I turned to Bill and I was like, this is like, X Factor in Deadpool 2, like, that's what I'm feeling right here. Like before we even before it all even went down. Like they're all coming in and everything and I was like, I'm getting real X Factor Deadpool 2 vibes

Jonathan Correia: 11:14

X Force

James Jay Edwards: 11:15

without the Brad Pitt.

Waylon Jordan: 11:17

Right.

James Jay Edwards: 11:18

Which I think is genius. If you're gonna have Brad Pitt your movie, they show him for like two frames max. Just enough to register that that's Brad Pitt.

Jonathan Correia: 11:28

Instead we got something better and that was Pete Davidson's character not lasting more than a minute

James Jay Edwards: 11:34

and he got killed being a scumbag too. That was the best part

Jonathan Correia: 11:38

now just to get another one out of the way cuz you guys saw it and talked about it but I hadn't, the Green Knight was fucking phenomenal. That was worth dropping 20 bucks on a digital rental for me at least. I loved how it played out just like in an ancient epic poem. Like I was sitting there. I was like, This is playing out like if someone just did like a straight up adaptation of The Epic of Gilgamesh or type you know, just the pacing, its characters everything. It was very true. And I liked how again, broken protagonists that guy could not do anything right the entire movie. And it was just him fucking up left and right and I loved it. I'm tired of boring do gooders give me more broken protagonists, please. But yeah, Green Knight was phenomenal.

Jacob Davidson: 12:23

And speak and on new releases. I just saw this new horror movie on Shudder called Superhost. Have you guys een that?

Waylon Jordan: 12:32

That thing is buck wild

Jacob Davidson: 12:34

Oh, yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 12:37

Is it a sequel to Host?

Waylon Jordan: 12:39

No. It's a couple of it's a couple of travel vloggers and they go to this this place and they're like, you know, talking about you know, super hosts these you know, these awesome hosts and these sort of like Airbnb type places. But but it just really just spins completely out of control with their with their host.

Jacob Davidson: 13:01

Yeah, I was gonna say their host is this woman named Rebecca played by Grace Phipps (edit: Gracie Gillam) who, you know, she's like, extremely quirky has real Anne Wilkes vibes at but she had like, she flips her emotions at the drop of a hat. And she she is definitely one of the highlights of the movie. They just like just really kind of steals the scenes every time she shows up also has some great bits with Barbara Crampton as like yeah bitter former super hosts on their show like they apparently gave her a bad rating and she's so mad at them that you track them down

Jonathan Correia: 13:38

that's awesome. Yeah,

Waylon Jordan: 13:40

well and and yeah, the the superhosts she I also got real like Aubrey Plaza vibes off of her like I kept thinking like this would have been a great role for her to like, it's just that kind of character. But yeah, if you if you guys get a chance to watch that when it's so much fun, just so much fun to watch.

Jacob Davidson: 13:59

Yep, it's on Shudder.

Unknown: 14:00

I'll jump in and say I saw it took me a while but I finally got around to seeing Werewolves Within. Oh, yeah. Man did I have fun.

James Jay Edwards: 14:09

Yeah. Is it one of your favorites of the year?

Waylon Jordan: 14:11

Oh, without a doubt, like it's just so and and you know, I started to watch it a while ago and got into it. And then like, had to stop and I was like, I need to finish this movie. I need to finish this movie. So I finally got to go back and actually fully see it all the way through and man what a movie I had so much fun that that ending was killer.

Jonathan Correia: 14:36

That movie actually recently inspired me to finally watch Murder By Death because I was like, man, I need to watch another great movie. I get another who dunnit and I got like halfway through it because man as everyone was firing on all cylinders, especially Peter Falk, Columbo funniest person in that movie, but Peter Sellers as Doctor Wang was Ohhhh, that just was killing the movie so bad and everyone's so good in it except for that and it's just the most like hard it's not quite Breakfast at Tiffany's of like, racial stereotypes of Asians but it's like just just slightly less than that, but

Waylon Jordan: 15:22

like, you know, at the same time, but the whole point was to kind of poke fun at all of that because of all the Charlie Tan movies that came out in like the the the 40s and stuff and and all the terrible things that were done in there. But yeah, it is a really fine line and it stepped on both sides that line several times throughout.

Jonathan Correia: 15:40

Yeah, there was some funny bits with that though. This bit of me like no, that's my adopted son. I laughed at that. But yeah, I had to take a break. I was like, oh, man, this is this is a bit much for right now. I'll definitely finish it soon. But

Jacob Davidson: 15:54

yeah. Oh, and in terms of repertory screenings, I just saw for the first time David Lynch's Lost Highway, and oh, man, I have no idea where I am.

Jonathan Correia: 16:06

I was about to say, do you have thoughts Can you can you put them together?

Jacob Davidson: 16:11

Dick Laurent Is Dead.

Jonathan Correia: 16:13

I've never watched Lost Highway. I've owned it on DVD for 12 years now. And never put it in. Like I love David Lynch I want to watch Lost Highway. It's just every time I go to watch movie and I see that DVD case I go Am I in the mood for this? I don't know if I'm in the mood

James Jay Edwards: 16:31

He went through a period with like Lost Highway and Inland Empire where it like I don't even know if he knew what he was doing.

Waylon Jordan: 16:38

Oh, yeah, it's entirely possible that he didn't

James Jay Edwards: 16:41

He knew what he was doing. But I don't think he knew where he was going.

Jacob Davidson: 16:44

You know, I mean, it was a very entertaining movie with an outstanding cast, like particularly Robert Loggia was both hilarious and terrifying.

James Jay Edwards: 16:55

I can't hear them Robert Loggia without thinking of that Family Guy where I was about to place Robert Loggia. Behind Robert Loggia in line. I think

Jacob Davidson: 17:09

that's probably related to the joke because in Lost Highway, there's like a guy tailgates, Robert Loggia's character is kind of like this crime lord, boss or whatever. And so he just like, rails, this guy off the roof of his car and just beats the shit out of them. The funniest part to me those I later looked it up and on two fronts. For one, Robert Loggia got the role for Mr. Eddie in Lost Highway because he had originally waited several hours to try out for the role of Frank Booth in Blue Velvet, and then, like just squared the hell out of David Lynch when he wasn't told about it. So Lynch promised him a roll of another movie. And also apparently that scene was based off of David Lynch getting so mad that somebody was still getting him and that's what he wanted to do to the guy who was tailgating him like so never ever tailgate, David Lynch or he will destroy you.

Waylon Jordan: 18:11

Yeah, good to know. Good to know.

Jonathan Correia: 18:13

That's one of the things I avoid in life is that and people who think dolphins have mystical powers.

James Jay Edwards: 18:23

Cool, what else you guys been seeing?

Jonathan Correia: 18:24

I when we saw Candyman at the drive in, they double featured it with Escape Room, the championships....

Waylon Jordan: 18:34

Tournament of Champions

Jonathan Correia: 18:36

Tournaments of Champions so I took we took that as an opportunity. The night prior, we watched the first Escape Room and Candyman and then the next day, watch the new Candyman and Escape Room. So it was a double feature double feature. And so I have never seen the Escape Room movies before. And I got to applaud. They always have one set piece that blows me away. You know, in the first film, it was the upside down bar. And in the second film, it was the whole bank scene. That really...

Waylon Jordan: 19:04

That bank is gorgeous, that art deco bank was incredible

Jonathan Correia: 19:09

And the playout of it was great. Um, but I got to say, not a big fan of like Saw-esk movies, not even a big fan of Saw movies to be honest. And I'm definitely not a fan of Escape Rooms. So those movies were not really made for me. But I did really enjoy like, especially like during the bank, like when they got really into it. I feel like they did a better job in the sequel of incorporating more Escape Room rules where it's like, Okay, we got to find this clue. And this clue means is the first movie it felt like alright, I don't know if these clues actually really are clues that really fit together to allude to something but I feel like they they went more hardcore with that. So that was fun. But yeah, I can I see the appeal of them. Did they just work for me? I do want to shout out to Tournament of Champions for casting India in it.

Waylon Jordan: 19:59

Oh yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 20:00

I really dug that they were just a character. They were just another person who was caught in it. And having a non binary trans Actor in a movie where, you know, their character motivation isn't being driven by trauma or anything or just being a spending all the time. They were just another person who was caught up in a fucked up situation I thought was really great. So

Waylon Jordan: 20:23

yeah, that was really beautifully done. And and they did a damn good job in the film. So you know, I was, I was had a lot of fun watching, watching for that specific reason, because I wanted to see how it was handled. And I thought Adam, and the people on the film would like do a good job with that, but you just never know you never can do so. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 20:46

And I, and I definitely was like, because I just watched all of Pose within like a week or two. I was definitely on the 'you better do them justice, You better do them justice'. And they did. I thought that was great. So yeah, I had fun with them. But I think it's a bit of a Happy Death Day situation where I'm like, this, these films were not made for me. And that's cool. I'm glad that they have an audience. And I do hope they keep making because they seem like a lot of fun.

Jacob Davidson: 21:13

Um, and in terms of new blu ray releases, I've recently got the under films blu ray of Evil Dead Trap, if any of you guys seen that one.

Jonathan Correia: 21:22

No, but I just got my copy into.

Jacob Davidson: 21:25

Oh, yeah, no, I've been a fan of it for a while just because it is. Well, it's very different from the usual kind of J-Horror stuff, especially from the 80s because it's one of those things where like, around that time is mostly ghosts. So

Jonathan Correia: 21:38

is that the one where it's basically like an Evil Dead ripoff? But with a really muscular

Jacob Davidson: 21:42

Oh, no, no, that's a body... Body Builder...Muscle Hell... or well, Japanese Evil Dead. But this, this is actually more influenced by like slashers and Giallos. Okay, so it's basically like this news reporter gets these snuff films in the mail. And instead of calling the cops so she takes her news team to investigate, and they go to this abandoned American military base, and they start getting picked off one by one in Yeah, like these traps, like there's like giant spikes that come out of the walls. And at one point, there's like a, like a new scarecrow that comes out of nowhere. And there's this weird dude in a slicker going around. So it's just got all these weird element elements and also got like a also has a great synth soundtrack that was definitely Goblin inspired. It's just always interesting when you know, like another style of movie from outside of a country influences to create a movie with in another country. So like, this is a Japanese kind of take on slasher and Giallo. And it's very effective, especially because it goes to some wild places that I don't want to spoil.

James Jay Edwards: 22:56

Let's move on to talking about Waylon. Because Waylon got to talk about me, and now you're here. You have some cool stuff that's happening right now. And we want to talk about it. The main thing that that we brought you on to talk about is your new novella, The Stop, which is it's out now you can get it like Amazon,

Waylon Jordan: 23:20

You can get it on Amazon for Kindle and also paperbacks. It's available there. I was I have been looking into trying to get it on more digital services. I haven't been able to do that yet. And I the audio book has also just gone into production. So there will be an audio book forthcoming of The Stop.

James Jay Edwards: 23:39

Awesome. Give us the elevator pitch for The Stop.

Waylon Jordan: 23:43

In The Stop, I take you back to 1996. You know, it was a very different time in, in the gay community and especially well, you know, especially for gay men. It was before we had like, even Craigslist or Yahoo, you know, personals and things like that. And, you know, we certainly didn't have anything it's instantaneous as Grindr. So if you wanted to meet people, and you were from some small little town, you know, out in the middle of nowhere, East Texas, you had to know where to go. And basically, these cruising spots just sort of cropped up here and there. And the story takes place, this young guy named Donnie, just sort of coming into his identity and figuring out who he is, goes out and meets this guy at a at a cruising spot that they call The Stop. It's a little rest area on the side of the road, and they really hit it off. And after a month or so he gets up the nerve to ask him out on a date. But when he goes to pick him up for the date, he discovers Nate's body he has been murdered and things just kind of spiraled from there

James Jay Edwards: 24:51

reading The Stop that and I want to know your influences for it. But I also want to know if I'm on target with what I think they were or one of them yeah.

Waylon Jordan: 25:00

Oh, go ahead, please.

James Jay Edwards: 25:02

I was getting a huge Cruising vibe from it.

Waylon Jordan: 25:05

There There is definitely I mean, it's hard not to have that vibe, you know, and not to have that comparison, I'm really pleased that I did something good enough to have that comparison. Because you know, you just never know when you put it out if people are going to like, make that leap. I'll tell you how the story came about. I was up late one night, I was listening to the audiobook of the queer Bible, it's a series of essays that members of the queer community wrote about other members of the queer community that like influenced them, like famous, you know, people. And the first essay was about George Michael. And it was about, you know, everything that George Michael went through, and what it meant to this person who was sitting in watching George Michael go through all of what he went through, you know, with being basically it was entrapment. In a in a bathroom, you know, I mean, it was it was straight up entreatment, and a just, you know, I started sort of reminiscing and got really nostalgic about all the crazy stuff we used to do, you know, back then, back in the 90s. And, and the thought occurred to me, you know, it's a wonder more of us didn't end up murdered. And literally, just that thought I had the main character, I had the killer, I had part, you know, good three quarters of the story in my head. And it just sort of took over my writing life until I could get the story down on paper. Now, what a lot of people don't know, it's that this story, the way I first started was much, much shorter. It was basically a short story. And I sent it out to my beta readers, and everybody came back and said, first of all, I think this is actually a movie. And second of all, I need to know more. I need to know more about these characters. And I need to know more about the story. So even though it kind of felt like I was completely emotionally wrung out from writing the short story version of it, I went into it, and started looking for ways to expand it. So that's how I got to the version of the the novella that that we have now.

James Jay Edwards: 27:21

That was the first thing I had thought of when reading it. I don't know if it's just because you're a visual writer or what but I kept picturing it as a movie as well. It so I do think you should make it into a movie.

Jonathan Correia: 27:35

Honestly, I I'm almost halfway through it right now. And I keep like visualizing it, like a Brian De Palma film, like, the characters that are there. They're very well fleshed out, but they're weird and complicated. Some aren't like completely evil, some aren't completely good. There's like, I felt I could definitely see like a lot of visual stuff that like is in a De Palma film, you know, like, especially like, you and I were talking about before we started recording, there's a scene between Donnie and the sheriff. And I'm seeing all those like that classic De Palma angle where both people are focused, but ones at the other end of the room and ones at the forefront, you know, yeah.

Jacob Davidson: 28:14

And will was one das like would, how would you define like the particular genre of this story?

Waylon Jordan: 28:21

You know, I had trouble with that. I had to wait until I started getting some reviews. And because I was even having some, some trouble sort of defining what it was the thing that people seem to most latch on to is revenge noir and thriller. It is very grounded in reality. There is a slight sort of maybe maybe not supernatural element to it, but it's so vague and it's so you never really know and and the characters never really know. So, but it is very reality grounded. It's very much a mystery thriller with a heavy dose of revenge noir in it. And it's very much a Texas story. I you know, I set the I set it in the town where I live, like the the names of the towns, everything in there as far as a location goes is a real town

James Jay Edwards: 29:17

Is the stop real?

Waylon Jordan: 29:19

The stop was real. The stop was real. The stop was demolished due to a highway project in the last four years or so

Jonathan Correia: 29:29

highway projects.

Waylon Jordan: 29:30

Yeah

James Jay Edwards: 29:32

Correia just did air quotes.

Waylon Jordan: 29:34

They they expanded the the highway and took out the rest stop. But it was a real place and that's what it was used for. Much like there's, you know, I ate all of those places are real. I'll just say all of those places are real. Now. Like there's a Catholic Church in it. And that Catholic Church exists, but I changed the name of the Catholic Church and like you You know, I've never actually been in there. So I just made up what it looks like on the inside. But that Catholic Church is exactly where I say it is in the book right next to the university, and and all of that. So yeah, it's very much a reality based Texas story.

Jonathan Correia: 30:18

One of the things that is definitely, that I'm really enjoying is, How purposeful are you about touch with this? Because it seems to be a very big, common occurrence, description of touch, there's little moments where that seems more intimate than a lot of the things a lot of the, you get very explicit Waylon, like, you get very explicit

Waylon Jordan: 30:43

Well, I do. But you know, I mean, that's the environment, you know, that's, that's the environment, that's where they're meeting. And that's what they're meeting for,

Jonathan Correia: 30:52

It's totally appropriate for the subject right? matter. But it's, it's, I find it very interesting that you have these very explicit descriptions going on about these, but the moments that are more intimate are the small moments with small moments of touch. There's one where people are in a Walmart, and they just happen to touch each other passing a receipt, and you even write, you say what that touc means. And that's one thin that's like, really draw ng me in is, wow, first of all, we just had like a very, very graphic description of what happ ns in the woods. And then yet, you know, the it's, there's more going on.

Waylon Jordan: 31:32

Yeah. And I think that part of I think that part of what I was leaning into, and it was very intentional. I think that in a lot of narratives, and especially narratives that have been written by straight writers about the gay community, especially gay men, there's there's very little intimacy, there is a lot of scurrying, and there's a lot of sex, and it's all very salacious, but there's very little about intimacy. And so I put these moments in there to show that there are there is an emotional quotient to what's going on. And there's also emotional value to the relationships that are being created, even if they're being created, based in this place where sex is what, you know, sex is the reason for being there. That kind of connection. So yeah, yeah. So that that scene that you're talking about passing the receipt is one of my favorite things in the book, just because it is a moment that shows you know, when you learn to communicate without words, because you can't say certain things out loud, like touching a hand can be one of the most potent things in the world. And so having that connection, yeah, it's one of my favorite scenes in the book. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 32:53

No, it definitely left a mark on me. And one of the things that I really like as a, you know, cis straight man who grew up in the woods of New Hampshire, so I had very little exposure to anything outside of that type of experience. Um, you, you explain things very well, when it comes to like stuff, like, what a stop is? Why are people here? What can one gain from here? What can we have here? But at no point does it feel like you're over explaining you're not talking down to the audience when going over this? And nor are you just expecting us to know like, I'm picking up stuff like record out? That's why Oh, yeah,

Waylon Jordan: 33:34

yeah. Yeah. And, and it's sort of a it's sort of a passing on an FAQ, almost, you know, I didn't want it to be I didn't want everything to be really drawn out discussion of things. I wanted to give you what you needed. So that the the narrative of the story continued, without dragging things down, because you know, I love some of my favorite authors are very descriptive. I love Ann Rice. I love Stephen King, but there are times when I'm like, could we get on with this now because like, you're really really dragging me down and I didn't want I had a pace in mind for this story. And I did not want to sacrifice pace, but I knew that there were certain things that I would have to explain.

Jonathan Correia: 34:19

Yeah, it's a very good balance because we're you're we're picking up the those details on what these things are while the actions are happening. While, you know, character development is happening and I appreciate that because you know, I'm still just a simple you know, woodsmen bumpkin who wanders around it doesn't entirely know what's going on. So

Waylon Jordan: 34:43

simple woodsmen bumpkin I don't think are three things that you will ever really be, Jon

Jonathan Correia: 34:53

It's also interesting reading some of this and I'm like, Oh, yeah, I know what it's like that. It's kind of like the woods I grew up in. If I stumbled upon that That would have shocked me.

Waylon Jordan: 35:03

Well, you know, and and one of the other things and I'll just ask, you know, James, you've actually finished the book. But you're reading right now, Jon, and and I don't know, Jacob, have you had a chance to read yet?

Jacob Davidson: 35:14

I don't think I got it.

Unknown: 35:15

Oh, okay. I will make sure you get a copy my friend. The one of the things that that I also included are, Donnie is a big reader. And he's always got a book with him, when he goes out to like, sit at the stop. And those book titles are very intentional. So like, if you want glimpses into what's going on in his mind, if you want glimpses into maybe more about the situation, I would say pay close attention to the books that he's reading at various points in in the novel, oh, or in the novella,

Jonathan Correia: 35:51

Waylon, I noticed that with the first book title, you weren't exactly being subtle. The first book he's reading is Stephen King's The Needful Things.

Waylon Jordan: 36:02

We're going out to make a deal with the devil.

Jacob Davidson: 36:07

And I was gonna ask you Why 1996?

Waylon Jordan: 36:13

You know, 96, for me, was sort of a transformative year, I was not out yet. I, you know, I wasn't taking part I wasn't going out to the rest stops. I wasn't doing any of that stuff. But 1996 I was starting college, I was beginning to understand that there was a world outside of the world that I was raised in. And this story felt like it needed to be told in the 90s, 96 just felt like a good time. It was it was a time in my mind that I was like, you know, this is a story that I could really tell. And it's a story that I I lived. But in a way, you know, there are aspects that I lived I certainly didn't get involved in a murder.

Jonathan Correia: 37:07

Not that you would admit it on, you know, a record now.

Waylon Jordan: 37:10

No, not at all. I'm an innocent person. I mean, y'all can see my Halo, you mean,

James Jay Edwards: 37:18

isn't the immunity portion of the podcast?

Waylon Jordan: 37:22

But no, it just felt like this was a story that really felt late 90s. To me, there were so many interesting things going on in the world. And so many changes that were going on in the world that this felt like the time to tell that story. I was I was mentioning, before we got started that I have two other books sort of planned in this same vein, and one will take place like 25-30 years before this book, and one will take place about 25 or so years after this book. different generations of gay men, different generations of people going through different things and having different challenges for connection but also building it around this sort of thriller vibe. So So yeah, I you know, the The time is very specific for, for me and my own personal experience.

James Jay Edwards: 38:17

I think what you said earlier about how back in the 90s, there was no, you know, not even Craigslist, let alone Grindr. Right. So I think that gives you a lot of fun places to go when you do that modern one, as well as the more primitive of the 60s, the 60s, were there even rest stops that were doing that?

Waylon Jordan: 38:34

Well, there were Yeah, there were places that you could go in the 60s, there was, you know, there was there was, it was it was different, you know, you were much more likely, depending on the part of the world that you were in, you're much more likely to find some little dive bar down an alleyway that may or may not have like an awning over the door that you just have to know the password to get in that kind of thing. It really depends. It depends on where you were a friend of mine as a as a gift for me for the publishing of this book sent me a book that goes into what was going on at the piers in New York at the time and and certain during the 60s and meetings and this whole society that grew up around gay men meeting at down on the pier and where they would go and, and what happened to them. So that's certainly playing into how I'm sort of plotting out some of this other book in my head. You know, just some things that I'm thinking about.

Jonathan Correia: 39:41

Yeah, I mean, the peers were a big part in Pose too. Yeah. Yeah. For a lot of LGBTQ. That was 80s though. So I definitely would be interested in seeing like what that transition from like how it was in the 60s to the 80s and stuff, you know,

Waylon Jordan: 39:56

there are actually a couple of old movies. I will have to go find the titles, but I don't remember them off the top of my head, but they were made in the late 60s that sort of dealt with some of that culture as well. So I will I will have to give those those titles to you because they're interesting films.

Jonathan Correia: 40:15

Definitely. I got the week off. So I need many titles right now.

James Jay Edwards: 40:19

Now speaking of making books into movies, another one of yours. It's a short story in an anthology. Yeah. Worst laid plans. And your story, your story? Is it called Deep in the Heart? Is that just Deep in the Heart? Yes. Okay. Deep in the Heart. Not I always want to put the up Texas deep in the heart of Texas.

Waylon Jordan: 40:41

Yes.

James Jay Edwards: 40:44

Your story was selected as one to be made into the anthology film. How did that go?

Waylon Jordan: 40:51

Well, if you want to talk about the biggest surprise of your life, I, first of all that story, that story was another one that wrote itself very, very quickly. And there were a lot of edits after the first round. But that story wrote itself very quickly. And it's about a young man who's on a vacation trip with his parents, and they go down into a cave in South Texas, because that's the thing we do here is go on these cave tours. And, you know, one of the things that happens down in caves is that the wildlife that exists elsewhere mutates to sort of, you know, fit its new environment. And I remember seeing blind cat fish while we were down there, and on one of these tours, and then the thought of it was, what if those blind cat fish further evolved so that they were big enough to crawl out of the water and eat people. So that was kind of where the story grew from. And I wrote this story, it was chosen, it was put in the the anthology, and I was super excited to be in with some really talented authors to be on the same table of contents, as some of these authors was just, you know, that was the blessing in itself. And then a couple of months later, the editor of that Anthology, messaged me and said, Waylon, I really need to have a conversation with you can I call you this afternoon? And I was like, Oh, crap, what happened?

James Jay Edwards: 42:18

Really good, or really bad.

Waylon Jordan: 42:20

Right? And she called me and she said, Hey, we're going to make an anthology film, based on worst laid plans. I was like, Oh, that's really cool. And she said, and we have a director that wants to adapt your story. And I was like, has he read it? Because, like, that's gonna take budget.

James Jay Edwards: 42:41

It is a very cinematic, I mean, kinda like The Stop. I mean, I can see it as a movie. But you're right. It's a creature feature. So there's, yeah, there's some effects in there.

Waylon Jordan: 42:52

Yeah. And and I was like, Are you my story? Are you sure? And she was like, Oh, yeah. This is a guy who loves to make creatures. He loves to build, you know, actual physical props and stuff and loves to work with stuff like that. And he read your story and he loves it. And he wants to make a film out of it. And she said, but I need your permission to move ahead with it. And I was like, why are you asking me a dumb question, make the film. The director is John Hale. He lives in West Virginia, he is actually an Emmy winner, which shocked me, I had no idea that, you know, I started researching him after she told me who it was. And I was like, holy crap, this guy won an Emmy, you know, and, but he, he loves creature features. He loves monster movies. This is his jam. And he made some changes to the story. He actually wrote the script. He aged up the main character, because in my story, the main character is 12 years old. And he was like, I just, I think it would work better for the film, if we made him older. And I was like, go ahead. This is you can do anything to this character that you want to except make him straight. Because it is important to me that that he is a central gay character. And he was like, I won't touch that at all.

James Jay Edwards: 44:14

Why is it important that that he that that character be gay because the thing is in The Stop, it's a central character point. And it's vital to the plot. But I didn't think in Deep in the Heart that it was I mean, I could see that kid as being straight and it wouldn't affect the story at all.

Waylon Jordan: 44:32

It wouldn't necessarily affect the story, but it's become my sort of mission, the more I write, to have that representation there that that Yeah, and and it doesn't have to be a reason you know, there doesn't have that. You we get the question a lot when we're talking about putting a gay character into something producers, editors. Other people will ask you why does this character need to be gay? And a lot of it is, why does he, you know, why did that? Why does that have to exist in the story, it has to exist in the story because I'm writing it and I want it there. But also, because I never had people to look up to when I was growing up, representation was few and far between. So I want to provide representation for the kid that's growing up in East Texas that doesn't have that representation. So it's just, you know, I write this character For this reason, and I put this part of this character into it. But also, you know, a big part of the story is about sort of embracing who you are, and sort of stepping up to the plate, even when you're terrified to do so. And I think that's also a really good lesson for young LGBTQ kids out here in the sticks who are trying to, you know, figure out how they're going to live their lives. And so I was just really adamant. I was like, you know, I'm not set on race, I'm not set on any of these things. But please just keep the character gay, because I really want him to be a gay kid

James Jay Edwards: 46:11

is the director because he's aging him up, is he going to lean into that more, because you would think that his he does

Waylon Jordan: 46:17

lean into it more, he does lean into it more. And he also has changed, he did a brilliant job of changing the relationship between this kid at 18 versus who this kid would be at 12 in his relationship with his parents, because at this point, the kid is 18 his parents, they may not know. But they know, you know, they've got a pretty good idea. And he was able to bring in some some scenes and some interactions between the character and his parents that I was not able to go into because of where the child was in their development. And he did an excellent job of it. And I you know, and it's all very subtle. It's nothing that's like beating you over the head with a hammer or anything. He did a really good job of it. And like I said, they're going into filming in a couple of weeks, they got a really good cast for it. And I just really wish I could go to West Virginia and be on set while it was happening. But

James Jay Edwards: 47:18

you had posted. I think that I think that they posted a picture of the creature and you had read Yes, it it looks really cool. Really? Yeah.

Waylon Jordan: 47:27

It is a really cool build. I can't wait to I can't wait to see it with like the skin on it and stuff. Because you know, the last thing that you posted, you very much have sort of the musculature and everything now, I can't wait to see what the skin and everything is going to look like. But yeah, I'm super excited because I, again, I wrote this creature feature and never once thought that somebody would say, Oh, yeah, let me adapt that. Let me make a film out of that. So yeah, I'm super excited to see. You know, I told my parents about this story. And they both laughed when I said giant catfish monster, but I was like, you know, you guys laugh. But I grew up seeing pictures from people that we knew who hauled giant catfish out of lakes and stuff, and they're terrifying because real catfish. You can find them that are 300 pounds, like these huge, giant massive creatures. Just make a man eang and let them crawl out of the water. And and that's terrifying to me. Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 48:32

I was gonna ask if you had any personal experiences with catfish?

Waylon Jordan: 48:36

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I grew up in a family that fished a lot. Dad always had a boat, we would go out on the lake and go fishing. So yeah, I have had I have seen my dad's hand sliced wide open when when a cat fish like, got him with a fin because those fins are razor sharp in and of themselves, you know, and the inside of a cat fish's mouth is terrifying. I mean, it's it's not that there are teeth and stuff in there, but it's all razor sharp. It will get will cut you up in ways that you just never expected. So yeah, I've been there

Jonathan Correia: 49:16

and yet there's people sticking their arms down their mouth

Waylon Jordan: 49:19

with dumbest people in the world, anybody, anybody who goes noodling or whatever you call it where you're from. Yeah, no, that's scary stuff.

Jonathan Correia: 49:29

But also god bless him because you know, some fried up catfish is real good. Like they say in Reservation Dogs, catfish is life. Yeah.

James Jay Edwards: 49:42

I would always go fishing for catfish but all I ever caught was crappy.

Waylon Jordan: 49:45

Look, I'm a big fan of crappy I like that. I like the flavor of crappie. So yeah, I'm there with you.

James Jay Edwards: 49:52

Way more common, at least in the river we would fishing.

Jonathan Correia: 49:56

I was a child with ADHD fishing was did not last long with me, I could not sit there for long.

Waylon Jordan: 50:02

Well, you know when they take you out when they take you out in a boat in the middle of nowhere, there's nowhere to go, man. So you either fish or

Jonathan Correia: 50:11

no. Like they would bring me back after 10 minutes.

Waylon Jordan: 50:14

They cannot you know, and the worst part they would go night fishing. And so they would go out at like, eight 830 at night and stay out and fish until two o'clock in the morning. Well the problem is once it gets dark, you're out in the middle of a lake. And dad would light a couple of lanterns. And when you light a couple lanterns in the middle of a dark Lake, every insect 18 miles lands on your boat and on you crawls all over you and it's like having a second skin that crawls while you're out on the boat. So yeah, that was the what my my best day was the day that I was finally old enough to say no, I'm not going out there. I'm just not doing it. I'm not taking part anymore.

James Jay Edwards: 50:59

New short story. The Second Skin. Correia you just need to find the right part of the river because when we would fish for catfish and it was a river, not a boat, but you just cast across it and you use these little crappy jigs. And you reel them back in it looks like a fish swimming. You would catch a fish every cast every cast. They'd be cropped. They wouldn't be catfish. I heard that happening. She would have to like let the current take the lure underneath the bay. I don't know.

Waylon Jordan: 51:27

Take it down closer to the bottom.

James Jay Edwards: 51:29

Yeah, crappie. were more fun to catch because I have a little bit of ADHD. gratification of feeling the nibble?

Jonathan Correia: 51:37

I can't sit that long. suntanning can't do it, fishing can't do it. Like I used to get your mind with movies. There's stuff going on.

Waylon Jordan: 51:47

You're being entertained

Jonathan Correia: 51:48

but even even sitting down during this podcast James How many times do you yell at me for like not tapping my foot but shaking my legs so that it moves my mic

James Jay Edwards: 51:57

Yeah, if you if you ever hear that this right here. I don't even know if you can hear that a mic. So I have a good windscreen? Yeah, I'm always on the guys about that kick in their mic stand.

Jonathan Correia: 52:07

So is who's like since I did drink more than half a bang by the 15 minute mark.

Jacob Davidson: 52:14

Yeah, but yeah, I actually wish I could go fishing again. I used to do a lot of that. But with my dad and I used to fish at my old summer camp at actually in New Hampshire. And and that was fun too because we got to make our own fishing rods you know you put

Waylon Jordan: 52:35

the full camp experience

Jacob Davidson: 52:38

your own rod with nothing but a stick and some twine and some hooks. Yeah, and but I actually caught caught some fish with it. I can't remember really what kinds but also I was attacked by a snapping turtle. So that was an experience

Jonathan Correia: 52:51

I would do it.

Waylon Jordan: 52:52

Well you know and and that's the thing. There are so many things under the water that are scary. Oh yeah. I mean, you know, a writing this story about you know, blind catfish that basically you know, crawl up out of the depths of a dark lake in a cave was not a stretch of the imagination at all because I could totally see it happening

James Jay Edwards: 53:14

the camp that I would go to it was like right off you could literally see the freeway from it so there was not any It was not out in the remote woods or anything. But there was like a lake that actually was fed by the ocean because this is San Diego and there was a rumor there there was a sandbar way out in this lake and there was a rumor that out by the sandbar there lived a shark so and I think this was the counselors trying to tell us to not take the kayaks way out to that there was a shark out there but I think they just didn't want to have to keep an eye on us way the hell out there you go stay near the pier stay near over here and there's one side of the of the dock that we couldn't go on because that's what led to the ocean they were afraid we get sucked out. Oh yeah, camp is fine. Even even city camp

Jacob Davidson: 54:03

Treacher and the treasures are the the dangers of fishing.

Jonathan Correia: 54:08

I will say this. I like ice fishing. Because ice fishing there's like a big layer between you and the water. So you can be an ADHD little you know shit like I was and like still, like not disturb the fish as much, you know.

Waylon Jordan: 54:23

So let me tell you something, Jonathan. That's too cold there. There's just no reason to be out and that kind of Listen.

Jonathan Correia: 54:34

Listen, I get it.

Waylon Jordan: 54:35

I am a Texan. Yeah, I just don't do the cold. if I can help it.

Jonathan Correia: 54:39

I get it. You're a Texan. I'm a New Englander, my, I you know, I grew up on a power grid that could handle the cold, you know

Waylon Jordan: 54:47

exactly, exactly. Exactly if we didn't feel like we passed.

James Jay Edwards: 54:53

Now Now, when we get on tangents about camp and ice fishing, that's when you know that it's time to go We're gonna wrap this up, Waylon where can everybody find you and see what you've got coming out next

Waylon Jordan: 55:09

you can follow me on twitter @WaylonVox1, I have the most boring Instagram of all time, the name is just@waylon.jordan, you'll find me there on on Instagram. And also you can check out my website, which is WDaleJordan.com. And you'll find, that's where I post? Well, I do blogs. But I also you know, sometimes I'll post just short stories that I don't have a home for things like that. So there are sometimes things that you can read over there that are a lot of fun. And also make announcements for upcoming books I do have, I will say I have a longer horror novel a full novel that is coming out from Off Limits Press next year. It's called Taking Possession. And it takes place in an old antique store. And there's a haunted mirror and there's probably the most sadistic character that I've ever written in my life. And it's so something to look forward to.

Jonathan Correia: 56:15

Oh, right. Yeah, antique store. Haunted mirror. Sign me up. At some, like returned from the grave amaka shit right there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had a lot of fun writing that one.

James Jay Edwards: 56:27

So everybody go out and check out The Stop. You can get it on Amazon. You can get it I guess you're working on more digital platforms.

Waylon Jordan: 56:35

But yes, I'm working on more digital platforms. And I'm also working on the audio book.

James Jay Edwards: 56:39

So W Dale Jordan The Stop. I keep your eye out for best laid or Worst Laid Plans.

Waylon Jordan: 56:45

Yes. Worst Laid Plans

James Jay Edwards: 56:46

Keep your eye out for Worst Laid Plans anthology film or you can just buy the anthology book too and get all the other stories. How many of the stories out of the book? How many are in the book and how many got chosen for the film?

Waylon Jordan: 56:57

I think there are I think there were like 13 or 14 stories in the book. It's less than five I want to say it's like four or five stories that are actually being adapted.

James Jay Edwards: 57:11

Alright, so you're you're in like the upper like, you know 30%

Jacob Davidson: 57:16

Top tier

Jonathan Correia: 57:17

How can you say no to a giant blind cat fish?

James Jay Edwards: 57:22

I can definitely see I can see the appeal to the director of that. So yeah, so check out The Stop and Worst Laid Plans to keep an eye out for Worst Laid Plans the movie. Our theme song is by Restless Spirits. So go and check them out. They they're on the move now that the world is opening back up to so that'll be great. Chris Fisher is does our artwork. He has been posting some shots from his rogue bounty. So I guess his Star Wars fan film is still happening. Yes, that's gonna be cool. If and when that sees the light of day. I'd say it's a win more than enough. Just knowing Chris he'll he'll hack away at it. It might take him a couple more years, but he'll keep hacking for us. Yeah, you can find us at the Eye On Horror Twitter, the iHorror Twitter, iHorror.com, the Eye On Horror, Facebook, Instagram, any anywhere Eye On Horror, you can find us. And yeah, so. And if you need to get a message to Waylon and don't want to rewind the two minutes to find out his contact. We can get it to him. So you can find him there too.

Waylon Jordan: 58:23

Yeah. And I love hearing from people who have read the book. I love hearing from people who want to talk about it. You know, I hit me up this. This is one of my favorite parts of being an author is just talking to the people who have read it. So

Jonathan Correia: 58:35

Oh, you better be expecting so my messages from me once I finish and

Waylon Jordan: 58:40

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm looking forward to it.

James Jay Edwards: 58:44

Right on. Okay, cool. So until next time, we'll see you guys in a couple of weeks for me, James Jay Edwards.

Jacob Davidson: 58:49

I'm Jacob Davison.

Jonathan Correia: 58:50

I'm Jonathan Correia.

Waylon Jordan: 58:52

Oh, and I'm Waylon Jordan.

James Jay Edwards: 58:54

Keep your Eye On Horror.