Talking IT with John Campopiano and Christopher Griffiths

This episode, the boys talk (a lot) about The Black Phone and Scream, Queen! My Nightmare on Elm Street before delving into an interview with John Campopiano and Chris Griffiths, the directors of the behind-the-scenes doc Pennywise: The Story of IT. Premiering on streaming platforms and Bloody Disgusting's streaming service Screambox on July 26.

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James Jay Edwards: 0:24

Welcome to Eye On Horror the official podcast@ihorror.com This is episode 90 Otherwise known as season five episode 12. I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host Jacob Davison, how you doing Jacob?

Jacob Davidson: 0:41

Doing good. Always happy to be here.

James Jay Edwards: 0:44

And also with us, as always is your other other hosts Jon Correia. How you doing Correia?

Jonathan Correia: 0:51

Feeling good, it's early, but, um, fun fact I don't have an energy drink today.

James Jay Edwards: 0:58

That's because you're gonna go right back to sleep, you know?

Jonathan Correia: 1:01

Well, I'm also trying to cut them out then like I'm just functioning purely off of waking up and just chugging the coldest water possible. Just jolting the system from the inside. I hate it.

James Jay Edwards: 1:14

I learned this morning that I've been pronouncing Correia's last name wrong for like five years. It's Correia.

Jonathan Correia: 1:23

I mean, yeah, but I go by Jon Korea. I mean, it's Korea Correia tomato tomahto.

James Jay Edwards: 1:28

It's it's too late for me to change now. So you're always gonna be Correia.

Jonathan Correia: 1:33

Yeah, I'm Correia. Don't I'm still me guys. You don't have to treat me any different.

James Jay Edwards: 1:38

It's been a while since we talked because we recorded the Ama Lea/Brandon episode early. So we haven't seen each other in like three weeks. And in the time, since I've last seen you guys. I have seen my favorite movie of the year so far. The Black Phone? guys are both seeing the black phone.

Jacob Davidson: 2:06

Oh, yeah. Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 2:07

it's it's been out for a couple of weeks. So probably a lot of the listeners have to but I loved it. It it is it Scott Derrickson. So it's kind of got that Sinister vibe to it. Basically, it's the short story is it's about a Child kidnapper played brilliantly by Ethan Hawke, and wearing probably the spookiest mask, which you all have probably seen in the promo stuff for it. And one of his victims. He keeps his victims in this dungeon basement kind of thing. And there's a disconnected phone on the wall. Well, one of his victims is down there and the phone starts ringing and he picks it up and it's previous victims. kind of given him clues on how he can get out of there.

Jacob Davidson: 2:53

Also, this takes place in 1970s Colorado. Yes,

James Jay Edwards: 2:57

yeah, it's a period piece kind of so I mean, it's a wall phone isn't something you go how do you use this? I mean, yeah, but um Oh, it is it's it was written by it's based on a short story by Joe Hill it's written by Scott Derrickson and his buddy was as Ross Robert C cargo or Yep, car Yeah, his Yeah, his his his normal writing partner. But it's based on a Joe Hill story. So it also kind of has some It vibes to it. You know, Joe Hill being Stephen King son that's what you know, in case you don't know that's the connection.

Jonathan Correia: 3:31

I would also say it's not just IT vibes it just has that the I made note of it when Lindsey and I left the theater that Joe Hill learned from his father that well he learned like you know what? I I'm just gonna make one of my characters clairvoyant fuck it Yeah, I'm not gonna explain it really? I'm just gonna yep they're clairvoyant. Yep, these dead kids who are talking through the phone. I don't care if it's ridiculous it's going to work and it does its so well because king does shit like that all the time where it'll just be like, oh, yeah, and they know this because there's supernatural power like there's there's no

Jacob Davidson: 4:07

The Shining

James Jay Edwards: 4:08

yeah, there's a dead person that tells them this

Jonathan Correia: 4:10

exactly. He's able to sell like a really out there fan fantastical thing really, as just being like, this is a thing you know, even like in The Shining with the whole shining thing you know, because at the at its core, it's a movie about you know, a father you go and crazy because he's locked up in a place and he's trying to murder his family. And it's like, oh, yeah, and the kid can is clever boy it's just it's just one of those things that like that family is really good at selling and like I that was one of my reservations with the movie was just like, how is the actual phone thing going to work? And then in the trailer, they do hint that the sisters clairvoyant, I was like, oh, man, this this might be a little silly, but it works. It works really well. Like they sell it. Like yeah, no, this is just just normal.

Jacob Davidson: 4:59

Yeah, no Oh, I was fortunate enough to actually see Black Phone premiere at Beyond Fest last year, and then I got to rewatch it a few weeks back at the new Beverly. Man, it still holds up like, I think I may have even liked it more the second time. It's just such a tight and well paced horror movie and yeah, no does the performance particularly from Ethan Hawke, just as this oozing menace, you know, does it every scene is and it just is just, you know, terrifying. You know, what, what is he going to do next? And yeah, and I do love that mask that he wears, you know, the kind of the interchangeable thing it was made by Tom Savini from his Coliseum studios, and it's just so iconic. It is kind of funny, because it could easily be a slasher mask, but it's like this, like, Mind Games serial killer thing. So it just adds another layer to it,

Jonathan Correia: 6:00

there's function to it, because, you know, he wears different pieces at different points to convey like because he can swap out like it'd be a blank face, or one with a smile or with a frown. And then like he can and then he can wear like the bottom half independently from the top half and vice versa. And like I remember reading an interview with Tom Savini. And him saying like, it was the funnest challenge he's ever had. And it works so fucking well. Like I've never really seen a movie that introduced like a new mask that I was like, I need that I need that mask. That mask is the coolest, but like it's terrifying, especially the first time when they introduced the frowny bit part for the when he, when he's trying to initiate the Naughty Boy game was just and he's just sitting there, the chair with a frowny face like you know that that part of that mask serves a purpose to show like, I'm disappointed in you for do it for trying to escape, you know, and it's just, it's so raw and Hawkes performance in using those pieces of the mask. And just like his body movements, he never says the same. He never says two sentences with the same tone or cadence or anything. So you just you never know what his next move is. Except for the and I think that's why the the previous victims on the phone was so important because it's just like, Yeah, from like, an outside perspective. He is chaos and like there's no there. You don't know his next move. But everything's just meticulously planned. So this new kid Finny, being in that situation, just throws it all out the door and screws them over? Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 7:38

well, that's that's what they say when when they're on the phone. You know, they're basically given him the tools he needs to escape. He just doesn't know it until everything clicks. And it's Oh, it's just so tight. And the thing is, it's not I've heard people say that they wish it was scarier. Because it's not like over there's a couple of good jumpscares because Scott Derrick's and there's a lot

Jonathan Correia: 7:58

of i Sorry, I'm cutting you off. Go ahead.

James Jay Edwards: 8:01

Well, no, I just said that. I mean, there's a few good jumpscares because it's Scott Derrickson that have to do with the ghost stuff. But it's, it's not overtly gory. And it's not like cheap about it. It's just so tense. Is it the entire time you're like chewing your fingernails down to the nub? You're, you know, it's it's just so engaging. And this is one of those movies that it's kind of it was kind of a victim of the pandemic, I think, because it's it got shelved a couple of times. So there's been a lot of hype about it. I mean, I've been, I feel like I've been waiting two years for this movie. And I'm happy to say that it wasn't a disappointment. It definitely was worth the weight. I mean, I love this movie.

Jonathan Correia: 8:37

Yeah. And to go back on the jumpscares. That was one of the great things about seeing the theater, the lady who sat two seats down for me was just in the corner, my eye every time was jumpscare. Boy, she was in the air, it was great.

Jacob Davidson: 8:48

So I was gonna say, yeah, there was one particular jumpscare that even though I'd seen the movie before, maybe jump in my seat.

Jonathan Correia: 8:56

And they weren't cheap. I was trying to explain it to Lindsey on the way out like they, they all served a purpose. It was always, you know, it never lingered on, you know, how there's that trope of like, the cat, you know, where the cat jumpscare where it's just like, and then like, a shot of the cat after just being a cat. And it's like, oh, that was just there just to just to spook me in the moment. No, that was never the case. It was always just like an introduction of something. And the scene just kept going. Like it didn't stop. And

James Jay Edwards: 9:22

also the jumpscares the reason that I say they're not cheap is that they weren't a product of of like, say James Wan, where he like, someone's creeping down a hallway. And it's like, completely silent and all of a sudden, it comes out, it's like something is happening and all of a sudden, bam, you know, it just comes out of nowhere and they all like you said they all serve the purpose of the story. They're all like, you know, there was a purpose to that jumpscare Yeah, hit

Jonathan Correia: 9:46

Yeah, it was always It was always something like the character

James Jay Edwards: 9:48

So well made. wakes up and then all sudden, there's Ethan Hawke in the corner, just like staring at him and she's like, What the fuck do you want? It's just, I'm just watching you. And then it just leaves the room and it's just like, What the fuck or Um, with the phone and they and they introduced like ghosts and stuff, it was just literally just there. You know, it's, it's, it was really well paced too. I wasn't bored ones wasn't like, like, tense the whole time. They did a great job of, of writing these kid characters like the sister especially had like that great attitude of just being certain of herself and very like adult characteristics of just someone who is like, has spunk, but like wasn't a caricature of like a kid pretending to be adults. She just was very confident. And they provided great motivation for that. And one thing that I was very happy about was the character of Feeny. Because sometimes with the stories, the main kid just kind of becomes like a boring, you know, Luke Skywalker type word, there's just like, not much to their personality. But they did a really good job. And Lindsey made note of it that all these kids were given just enough backstory, and just enough characteristics that you could relate to them and you could project your own feelings like who doesn't relate to at least one of the kids in the movie, and it made the world very believable, especially which is good because you're selling a movie. Dead kids are giving this kid instructions on how to escape from a serial killer mask. Like, you got to have something that makes it feel real and it's it's it's the characters in the movie and Jim Davies. Wow. He's always great when he's in in something and him as the father was just haunting. Yeah, that father was was the most disturbing. I mean, almost as bad as Ethan Hawke. At times. Yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 11:43

there's definitely a parallel there. And also wanted to give a mention James Ransone, as Max the coked out amateur detective. Yeah, he's still he's just stole every scene.

Jonathan Correia: 12:00

show up, he's like, Oh, you're looking for the grabber come in. And they're like, Oh, do we have Do we have a lead that isn't this child who has? And he's like, so I've been maxing out all here. They're just like, Oh, gawd.

James Jay Edwards: 12:19

Yeah, cuz they go in with like him, possibly being a suspect. And he's like, Oh, no, here's what I got. And he's like, Charlie, in that episode of It's Always Sunny with like, the yarn and the cigarette. He said, I hear we got

Jacob Davidson: 12:32

Sylvia Pepe.

Jonathan Correia: 12:35

This maill from me. So Pepe Silvia.

Jacob Davidson: 12:38

Yeah, no, and just my favorite is the scene where he's like, having the I can see all the equations moment after being coked out of his mind set to I think it was wizards ball, that 70 song. And he's just, he's just looking at the map. Ya know, there's the it's like every character just really stands out in their own way. Like it's just very well written movie. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 13:00

Which again is very hard because I mean, you know, I'm gonna keep harping on it it's a silly thing you know, a disconnected phone the dead are communicating for through or a clairvoyant kid who the cops are going to try to help them with the case you know, these these are silly things, but they're because of like, how well written all the characters are how all different they are. It really sells it and man, Scott Decckison really loves home home video footage, doesn't he? I mean, was there any Doctor Strange I don't recall but like, the whole time, I was just like, Oh, we're in sinister territory here with with some of these shots.

James Jay Edwards: 13:36

Yeah, it's very Sinister, not just the Lo Fi but also the way that the ghosts are treated is very I mean, don't get me wrong. Ghost will always be my scariest Sinister. But yeah, hit it's definitely a Derrickson movie, which is a compliment because sinister is one of my favorite movies from back then. And sinister was is supposedly science has proved sinister was the scariest movie of all time until Host. Oh, yeah. I guess you guys hear that study. They they hooked people up to like electrodes and going by like heart rate and pulse and electric, you know, electric impulses. They figured out that Sinister was the scariest move all the time, but I think Host dethroned it. And I don't think the Black Pone is going to dethrone host because it's not as scary. But it's it's a better movie. I mean, it's my favorite movie of the year. Yeah, so far. movie that Ernest Scared Stupid. Were the ones that content my childhood, but that's just me. Let's let's move on. What else have we been watching?

Jacob Davidson: 14:37

Well, I've been watching some movies out of the Chattanooga Film Festival and there's some good stuff on the way. Particularly one of my favorites. It's funny, it's actually more of a duology is called The Third Saturday in October parts one and five. So you guys know me I love doober party massacre three and and this isn't exactly like that, but it is similar in that basically these filmmakers created or reverse engineer their own slasher franchise and made fake entries in this franchise. So like the first one, it's also weird because he watched it in reverse because like the third Saturday in October, Part Five was presented first followed by the first one. And the and Part Five is set in the 90s. And it's a bit more goofy, you know, it's a bit more of, you know, like, late stage direct to video sequel type of thing and a slasher franchise. But yeah, it's. So I learned this through the movie that The Third Saturday in October is a time when Alabama and Tennessee have a big football match. So it's a big day in the Arkansas or the Alabama area, and it was filmed in Alabama. And so there's this serial killer named Jack Araya, Jack Harding, who like wears a suit and skull mask, he was like a serial killer that was executed, but he came back to life and started killing people again. And so he's back again, because it's third Saturday in October, and he's killing people at this football party. And, and it's funny because then you watch the first one and it's more in line with like the original Halloween or Texas Chainsaw Massacre is more grounded, more gritty. And it deals with like Jack getting executed by electric chair like it's all burned and stuff. And he comes back to life and he starts knock off people one by one, while the parents of some of his victims kind of become like the Dr. Loomis. They're chasing after him. So like I do appreciate that kind of homage type of filmmaking. But at the same time, they feel like they really made it stand out on their own. So yeah, I'm not sure when it's going to get a release, but I would recommend it. And the other big one, which was actually the winner of Best Picture for Chattanooga Film Festival is this one called The Leech by Eric Pentecost. And it's basically about this priest, who is struggling with his faith, and he decides to take in this homeless guy that's at his church around Christmas, and he lets them live there, but turns into a whole Odd Couple situation. And this because this guy has got a lot of skeletons in his closet and a lot of crazy shit. And the priest is getting pushed further and further by the edge. And I should add the priestess played by Graham Skipper, and it's just kind of this unhinged sort of struggle of, I guess, understanding and also faith and that type of stuff. And yeah, that was and it really kind of draws the line between like thriller and dark comedy. So again, as another one that you guys should keep an eye out for. Oh, yeah.

James Jay Edwards: 17:55

The only other thing that that I have seen since last time we talked is I finally caught up with Scream, Queen! My Nightmare on Elm Street. You guys seen this? No, not yet. Yeah,

Jonathan Correia: 18:07

it's a great documentary.

James Jay Edwards: 18:09

It really is. It's it's it's basically about Mark Patton, who was for lack of a better term, the final girl of Nightmare on Elm Street to Freddy's Revenge, which we've discussed it before at length is considered the gay entry into the series. And it's interesting is because the actor himself Mark Patton is gay. What struck me about it, and it kind of pissed me off is the writer kind of threw him under the bus and said, basically, it wasn't written to be gay. That's what Mark brought to the role. And towards the end of the documentary, they get these two guys in a room. And the writer he backtracks, basically everything he's ever said and Mark Patton kind of lets him off the hook. But what else is he going to do? You know, he basically just wants closure and he says you know all I really want is you know an apology and the and he gets it but it it's just such an interesting story about basically what this movie did to this guy's career

Jonathan Correia: 19:13

well, and that's the thing because you know, we watch we watch a lot of documentaries that go back to movies, hint to our guests later. But the great thing about the Scream, Queen! Doc is the fact that it's not. It's a little bit about it is about making Freddy's Nightmare. Or write Freddy's Revenge. Revenge is about making Freddy's Revenge. But it's more so about the actors journey and like, you know, going through like, oh, I'm the lead in this in the first sequel to this super popular movie My career's about to take off and everyone you know, there's been a lot of money into it and like, I'm gonna have all these opportunities and then the backlash and it was intense that bad backlash to it because suddenly, you know, people were because we all know how fanboys and how toxic they are nowadays with the internet, they still were back then. And basically putting all the blame on this one actor and then you have the writer of it coming out and saying like, Oh, I didn't write it like that. That's, it's because of the actor. And it was very intense and like just going through all that. So seeing that road of him coming to terms with, you know, the character because, you know, I think I feel like it's kind of like, It's Pet Sematery 2 or fuel or a bunch of other sequels or Halloween 3, where it was ravaged when it first came out, but now it's got like a really dedicated fan base, me included. I love Freddy's Revenge. I don't think it's the best made film, but it's so entertaining. And I had so much fun and seeing that sit down was it's just so intense, because you can see that there's so much that he wants to say to this writer, just tell him off, but he takes the high road and goes like, you know what, I'm in a good place. I think you, you know, I got my closure that I wasn't crazy all this time. And that you and him admitting wrong and all that and like there's a bit of validation. And you know, it's it's just wasn't expecting to cry a little bit during that. You know what I mean? Like, here I am. I'm gonna watch this documentary about Fred Freddy's

James Jay Edwards: 21:21

A couple things that struck me about it Revenge. is first off, it was a great time capsule of that period of basically Hollywood in that period, because it goes into basically the AIDS scare. And like with Rock Hudson and Dak, Rambo, you know, and I didn't realize that Mark Patton was HIV positive. Because he his boyfriend was Timothy Patrick Murphy, is that who he was from Dallas. He, yeah, they were in a relationship. And he passed away from AIDS. So I didn't realize the mark Patton was HIV positive. And so it was a whole lot of that whole, like, being ostracized and like how no one, you know, it goes into how people didn't want to do screen kisses with Rock Hudson. It's just like, the ignorance but I understand it because it was relatively new at that point. I mean, I think Freddie's Revenge was 1985 I think so, you know, HIV and AIDS was brand new, and people were still afraid of it. You know, this is these are the years that Ronald Reagan was denying that it existed. You wish, you know, hey,

Jonathan Correia: 22:26

Fuck Reagan,

James Jay Edwards: 22:27

the talk about history repeating itself. But the other thing that struck me about it was how likable a guy Mark Patton is. Because he once someone tracked him down, he started doing the convention circuit. I've heard this explained by other people too, but the way he explained is like, somebody comes up to meet you, who's a fan, and if you're having a bad day, and you you know, are rude to them, that's their one little impression of you as a person. So he's like, You can't do that you have to put that stuff in your pocket. Because to you, you know, you're meeting hundreds of these people a day at a convention but this person is meeting you once you know. And I found that like it's like that's pretty deep that you know you have to there's no time for a bad day. You know when you're in that position so

Jonathan Correia: 23:22

yeah, you seems like just a really nice and genuine guy and I know you Jay said that you got it during a Vudu sale but the blu ray put out by Enjoy the Ride, One of Vinegar Syndrome's partners is also just incredible for it to slip covers so much fun. It's packed with features can't help but recommend the hell out of this movie. And it's a it's on Shudder t0o I believe. Oh, yeah,

Jacob Davidson: 23:45

it is on Shudder. I got on my watch list. I should check it out. Yeah, it's

James Jay Edwards: 23:49

definitely worth watching if you're a fan of behind the scenes and you know, documentaries. And speaking of behind the scenes documentaries, and we have a couple of very special guests this episode. They are the directors of penny wise the story of it new documentary about about IT the the 90s television series. Please welcome Chris Griffiths and John Campopiano. How're you guys doing?

John Campopiano: 24:15

Good, man. Thanks for having us.

James Jay Edwards: 24:17

The question I always like to start with for all of our guests is what was your gateway to horror? A what made what made you gravitate towards the horror genre?

John Campopiano: 24:27

Chris, you wanna start it off?

Christopher Griffiths: 24:28

Oh, God. So yeah, horror. I'd say it was a healthy balance of a bad upbringing by my parents really, I think that the CUSP moment was probably my old man putting on the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre when I was about eight and it was still banned in the UK at that point, and it was really taboo. And I'd sort of been put in my bedroom in the past you know, like I were watching a horror film and I'd hear all the screams and you know, the blood scrubs going off in another room wondering what that was. But I think it was Chainsaw Massacre was that watershed moment for me where it was like I felt my Soul drop inside me like sheer terror. But I kinda liked that. And from then on, it's just gone from there really that? I would say that in a nutshell. How about your John?

John Campopiano: 25:09

Oh for me, so I was an only child growing up. And so my diet of horror films came from the older brothers of my friends in the neighborhood and they would rent stuff. And I think thinking about it. Now, in hindsight, they probably got a kick out of putting stuff on and watching us kind of squirm and freak out. I think the first one for me was Silence of the Lambs that that I saw that really kind of blew my mind and kind of like Chris gave me like a rush where I was like, terrified, but kind of liked it too. So I would always sort of find myself peeking around the corner when they'd be watching something and just kind of freak out a little bit. And then it was always like all the slashers, Friday, the 13th. All that stuff was a part of that early diet for me.

James Jay Edwards: 25:45

How did you guys get into filmmaking? What was the start there?

Christopher Griffiths: 25:47

I guess it just stems from the love of films, to be honest. I mean, yeah, I was. I mean, in a nutshell, I was I was never the most academic, I think I did pretty terrible in high school, to be honest. And then the calling came when I finally took on, I think we went to media in college was the first time I ever saw Oh, my God, I've been, I've never seen a bee before. And it just sort of, you know, it kind of unfilled in that respect, basically. And obviously, what better way to kind of justify all those years of my mom buy me VHS DVDs. And look, I've got a somewhat almost career out of this thing now. So yeah, proving my mum wrong.

John Campopiano: 26:23

It was a total accident for me. I never studied That's what it was about. media or anything like that. And another colleague and I did a documentary about Pet Sematary a bunch of years ago. And, and that really was also kind of an accident, where we just found ourselves going up to Maine and trying to look for locations and meet people and that were associated with the movie. And before we knew it, we sort of had what looked like a film and ever since then, I really got a bit by the bug and and loved the process and loved interviewing people and finding media and stuff that nobody had seen before. And so that kind of just set me on my on my path to doing more projects.

James Jay Edwards: 26:58

And like you mentioned, you did the Pet Sematary, the Unearthed Pet Cemetery. And Chris, you did the Fright Night one, the

Christopher Griffiths: 27:08

That's right.

James Jay Edwards: 27:09

You're So Cool, Brewster! How did you guys team up for this one? How did you guys meet and decide to tackle IT?

Christopher Griffiths: 27:17

it? I always feel compelled to say this, I'm almost certain. So for starters, I'm absolutely crap, you know, oh, you sent me a message. Or you know, it was getting closer and closer. I'm almost certain I'd have to backtrack a good few years now. I think John actually approached me first. And then he realized, no, I'm not gonna do anything about this bugger. So John got Gary, but we all had them. Gary, who's the producer of these projects? And Gary Smart. There we go. Happy, Gary. You're on the podcast now. In some way, shape or form. But we actually had a mutual friend, John and ourselves, which was Bart Mixon, who was the special makeup effects supervisor on one countless amount of films. But specifically, his pride and joy, I think will forever be his monument is creating the original Tim Curry Pennywise. I think that kind of unfolds naturally to then John's relationship really is obviously a massive fan of the film.

John Campopiano: 28:12

Yeah. And I think Bart Bart also had worked on Pet Sematary. He and his brother did a little bit of special effects stuff on that and more. So Pet Sematary 2. But yeah, so I had met him, I had met him doing that project. And and then I think, you know, we Gary and Chris discovered that kind of along the same time that I did that he had this wealth of archive material from the miniseries. And Bart's been like an amazing documentor of his own work over the years. So I think once we knew that we had all that amazing material that nobody had seen before. I think I probably convinced Gary that give give this American guy that you don't know, a shot to come on board and help help make something happen. So yeah,

Jonathan Correia: 28:53

there's a lot of really great behind the scenes, just, you know, you see Tim Curry, just kind of screwing around behind scenes and seeing the kids mess around. And that was like some of the fun. I liked a lot of the scenes where they were talking about like, yeah, the kids were really great, but they kept screwing around too much. We had to take them aside and talk to them. But then the adults were just were worse, but no one stopped them.

Jacob Davidson: 29:16

Right. And, and I don't know that I wanted to ask, because a lot of that archive material made it into the movie, but how much overall Would you say there is?

John Campopiano: 29:26

I don't know. I mean, there's a lot but we I mean, I remember Chris and I, we were like we wanted to get as much as we could in there. I mean, I feel like I feel like the best of what's there made it into the doc or anything. I mean,

Christopher Griffiths: 29:38

it's all about how it fits in like contextually and obviously the thing is that what they did captures and we have utilized in some places there's there's a lot of like, multiple takes of singular scenes. You can you can actually differentiate things like penny wise and the kids in the sewer, because you've got like one takeaway hasn't got the Please, someone help me the thing that clouds wear around their necks, the collor The collor, the collor. And so I mean, to be honest, as John said, one of the exciting parts about making these documentaries, one of my favorite parts really, which I don't particularly have a massive hand in doing myself, but John certainly does is the collating all the archival materials. And we do this as fans. And I think there's nothing better across all projects when you come across, because we've obsessed over these films for all these years. And so someone shows you a photo. Yeah, I've seen that one of Tim Curry smoking a cigarette under the umbrella canvas. But when these other ones come up, and you just like, oh, and it'll fit in context of what something someone's saying, just absolutely mind blowing. So not only is it the videos, it's the photos as well. And it's incredible. How many electrons sort of explained that he got through the cast themselves. And but

John Campopiano: 30:52

yeah, I mean, Bard kind of was he's our champion. Time and time again, it feels like yeah, there was like a lot of material that we found that there were some photos that like we never had context for, I don't know if you've seen I think you've seen these Chris but Bart had some photos of like, Tim really had a sense of humor on set. And at one point in Vancouver, somebody had a like a life size cutout of George Bush and, and in full Tim Curry, you know, Pennywise makeup, he was, you know, doing some sort of graphic suggestive stuff to the to the cardboard guy that couldn't really find there was really no place to put that in context in the doc so that that left on the cutting room floor. But we used a good amount of of the stuff that we found, which was hundreds and hundreds of photos. You know,

Jonathan Correia: 31:34

that cardboard cutout would have made a great Stinger, just like at the end after.

John Campopiano: 31:39

I know, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure Bart explicitly said like, maybe don't use that one. Now I want to see it we want to stay in the good graces of Tim and his and his people. So we played nice on that one.

Jacob Davidson: 31:50

And you don't want to piss off the Bushes.

James Jay Edwards: 31:54

That's true, too. You mentioned the interviews. You guys pretty much talked to everybody who is still who's still with us because Harry Anderson, John Ritter, Jonathan Brandis are sadly no longer with us. But the one notable, noticeable absent cast member is Annette O'Toole, what happened there? Why couldn't you get her?

John Campopiano: 32:17

That's a great question. We tried. We tried really hard over a couple of years. And she just respectfully declined. There was no reason given. My wife and I even went to New York City to see her do an Off Broadway play, and met up with her afterwards. And she was super cool and took photos and talked and but then was just like now I'm not. I'm not interested. So I don't know. It's a mystery man. It feels like and I'm sure Chris would agree that to every doc we work on, there's always one or two people that you really like, oh, we couldn't get, you know, for whatever reason. And that was obviously to ours for this would have been great to have her. But yeah, it's kind of

Christopher Griffiths: 32:51

to be, as John said, it's definitely to be expected. We've had it ourselves with, you know, Dead Mouse productions where we couldn't get someone we thought we had Clive Barker for a moment with the Hellraiser documentary, we couldn't have Clive Barker for the Hellraiser documentary, and Robodoc, kind of the same. But we did eventually, after about five years, get Peter Weller with a lot of tugging and not like that shit, I shouldn't use a term like tugging. And this is why I was terrible guest. It's always gonna happen. And then it's to be honest, it's what you'd find surprising. And hopefully it does sort of shine through with Pennywise, it is amazing getting the cast, it's amazing getting the band back together and everything. And for them, I think to be honest, we lucked out how great everyone was. But what you do actually find sometimes it's the people in the smaller roles or with the lesser involvement, who sometimes got the better stories, you know, people who worked on the set, because for the cast, I mean, all of them and hopefully shows it was a massive deal, especially the kids to be in a project like Stephen King's It. But for some of the crew members, especially because it was all such a local affair in Vancouver, the enthusiasm, the memories and everything they collected, they capitalized on that situations, remember things. So a number of archival materials did come from like local crew members. And so actually, you sometimes get the richer stories because they're paying more attention to what's happening at the time, because it's such a huge situation for them. So yeah, I don't know how we got to that point. But well done. Vancouver. Oh,

John Campopiano: 34:17

no, it's true. I mean, most of the like, the main talent on these films oftentimes are really isolated. You know, they're kind of like whisked from their trailers, they shoot their stuff. I mean, even Tim, you know, Tim, they'd fly him up for a long weekend, he'd shoot some scenes go back to LA and he wasn't really around. And oftentimes it is those people, the script supervisors or the gaffers or the second ADS, or whatever, that were more in the trenches, and we're around a lot more and have the memories and have the media and archive and stuff. So yeah, Chris is totally right on that.

James Jay Edwards: 34:47

Having Tim Curry around. Limited. It probably worked better for the production anyway, because nobody got too familiar with him. He helped. So they were they were scared by him. Yeah.

John Campopiano: 34:58

Yeah, for sure.

Christopher Griffiths: 34:59

And we were probably Leave aside when we met him as well. So if I recall rightly, that was getting to his house and

John Campopiano: 35:06

we all went out to breakfast beforehand and that was a quiet breakfast and for that to be a quiet breakfast with our crew, you know, we were kind of just like, a little nervous.

Christopher Griffiths: 35:14

That speaks volumes.

John Campopiano: 35:15

Yeah.

James Jay Edwards: 35:16

Tim Curry's he's a legend i That was one when he popped up on screen of all yes, they got tinkered because I mean, and also for my money between Frankenfurter, Darkness from Legend, and Pennywise the clown. Those are three iconic roles and their roles where he slathered in makeup. So I mean, for him to be able to make such iconic roles where you barely see his face. I mean, that's an actor. I mean, he's, yeah, he's a legend, I would have been nervous to meet him, too.

Christopher Griffiths: 35:45

It's always exciting when we have that tension we all feel when it's like, Okay, boys, this is the big one, and hopefully, again, showcases how much have fans? Well, we're not just doing this, for the hell of it, or, you know, hey, look, here's something that could maybe one day make us money. It's nothing about that. It's all about, like, the love of the game. And so when those moments come, it really is just like, squeaky bum time, you know, and you're just all waiting there. But you couldn't have been more hospitable. To be honest, when we got there. I think it's one of the few interviews where we wrapped it up. And a table was set with iced coffees, orange juices, cereal bars, a God as well, like, you know, full on platter for us, of which I don't think any of us touched because we're too scared like, nothing. That vanilla coffee. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 36:29

Well, and that's the thing that comes across, in this documentary, because it, IT as a story. And especially with the mini series, you know, you're dealing with a lot of people confronting their fears. And a lot of these people are children. And so, in the movie, you know, the kids are facing their worst nightmares and stuff. And these are all scary things. And that's a tough thing for people to handle. And I, one of the things that I really respect about your documentary is these actors, we're very open about talking about that the ones that play kids, but especially like when one of the actors is talking about when the bullies are bullying them, you know, with the knife and stuff and like discussing these really hard moments of, you know, real real things that happened, or something that they might have experienced. It's they the actors seem very opened during these vulnerable moments. What was it like being in the room while they're opening up about these hard things to talk about?

Christopher Griffiths: 37:24

Things like Brandon, isn't it? They're very good, actually. That's the beauty. I mean, Brandon, and second, I can say this myself as a stocky lads, you know, he's very candid about, I guess you'd call it at least we call it over here. I'm sure some of those, like, the whole puppy trap thing of being a kid, you know, which you got to be as susceptible. I had it, you know, for being in a large lab and everything. I think it's very candid about those things. And so the, the, it's never overdramatic in terms of the interviews, but you kept the tone can shift when you do these interviews. Okay. Oh, let me try remember this. And then you get to that, you know, taboo topic, it's just like, gentlemen, assume the

John Campopiano: 38:01

position, even even like Jared, you know, like Jared talking about his father, I feel like none of us saw that coming, you know, and kind of getting emotional. So, yeah, I thought, I think it added, you know, kind of an authenticity to the doc, you know, having the kids now adults, obviously, kind of reflecting on whether it was the weight issue or having to be, you know, subjected to like, racial racial slurs in the story in the film. You know, I thought people Yeah, like, Chris, that were really candid. And I think it was conveyed on screen pretty well, I think in the doc

Christopher Griffiths: 38:34

side, Oscar winning moments is that that's just Drama!

Jacob Davidson: 38:37

drama. And something else I wanted to ask about is just the, you know, kind of examining the cultural impact of IT. I love the intro. Talking about, you noticed all the different people who became afraid of clowns because of the mini series, because I, you know, just it was one of those things where, you know, I was a kid, and I caught it on TV, and it scared the hell out of me. Just hearing a lot of people say that over and over again. Just kind of made me feel validated and that fear. Yeah. So and especially, you know, in the wake of the, the, the other remake or Well, adaptation, and two part adaptation, what would you say? Was your reaction to just kind of the sheer response to people's reactions to the original Mini Series and just kind of, and looking over just kind of how wide an impact that was.

Christopher Griffiths: 39:47

It was interesting because we, we shot majority, the bulk of the documentary before the chapter one cinema version came out. So it was quite interesting. And obviously we would translate past like, you know, what, what do you think about this? And how do you feel? Obviously, such comments now are going to be completely dated, if you watch my documentary like, Oh, I'm really looking forward to that film that came out a few years ago. And it was kind of just an accident, it was almost a perfect time to be doing it. Because the whole buzz for IT came back. And I think it's great, to be honest, what the new films have done. I'm one of those people. I think John will definitely back me up on this where it's a bit like, you know, you do a generic Pennywise search or something on Google, you know, and when you've got the newer one, kind of like saturated the images like No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's the Tim Curry One. That's what we've greatly brought back into the mainstream. But I think what's interesting is just how the years have affected people's opinions, because there was this. To be fair, it was massive, wasn't it when chapter one came out, which I know the general consensus was the second one be a bit of a disappointment. And I think it's a very, I mean, overall, that's the lesson learned about it is it's a very hard book to adapt. Especially that second part I don't think anyone could ever quite nail it can make because obviously, you know, the genius of Stephen King, but it feels what's quite nice is everyone had this massive buzz about the new films, but I think they have started to sway back you've seen the opinion that shift people go back to it. You know what, I think the mini series got it right. Now there's, I think there are things that it got better than the cinema version. So yeah, the timing was perfect. And I think it's just it's good to see that people have and hopefully watching this documentary, we'll start to see like, okay, yeah, I can see why this original version so treasured.

John Campopiano: 41:33

Gonna say, just to Jacobs point to I think, for a lot of us, you know, when things are entwined with nostalgia, or like memories from when you were a kid, it's sort of when that transcends a little bit of, you know, the miniseries has plenty of flaws. But you don't really always think of that you think about Tim, we think about the impact and, and the kids like Chris said, I think you know, I think one of the reasons that part two miniseries of part two, chapter two, didn't resonate is because you really don't I don't really care about the adults as much. I mean, if they if they, if they cast the kids? Well, I think like that's, for me, that's what I resonate with, you know, like the story of the kids

Christopher Griffiths: 42:05

Johns, John's gonna look in the mirror in a bit and realize he's an adult.

James Jay Edwards: 42:08

No. I think everybody resonates more with the kids. And I don't know, if it's a matter of casting or anything. I just think the kids story is more compelling. I mean, there's more, I mean, going back to Derry, and fighting the cloud, when it comes back, I mean, sure that that's a satisfying conclusion, at least until the spider comes up, but but for the most part, I think the kid's story is more compelling. And with IT, I think it's a generational thing, because I think it was 1991. So there's a whole generation of kids that saw the 2018 movie that had probably never seen that one, you know, I mean, they probably seen the memes and the pictures of Tim Curry, but they may not have seen the entire four hour, you know, mini series. And it came along at a time when when TV ship TV movies weren't allowed to be scary. I mean, back in the 70s, with, you know, Dark Night of the Scarecrow and Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, you know, they were allowed to be scary, even Duel was a TV, you know, movie, but that kind of tapered off and then all of a sudden you had IT and they talked a little bit about, you know about this, you know, they I think it was Larry Cohen, Lawrence Cohen, the writer is saying that they were pushing the either him or Tommy Lee Wallace, one of them said they're going to push the boundaries of what TV can do, and they pretty much did. And I think that's why it resonated with so many people that way was because they hadn't seen it on TV before.

John Campopiano: 43:34

Right? And you could as a kid, just be channel surfing and come upon it right? You didn't have to like find a way to get into theater to see the R rated film. You could just be clicking through the channels and then stumble on, you know, Tim popping out of the sewer and like what the hell is this? You

James Jay Edwards: 43:47

know, and hey, they don't make TV movies like that anymore.

Jacob Davidson: 43:50

And but yeah, that's what happened to me. I was flipping on the Sci Fi Channel and I saw Seth Green getting menaced by a werewolf in a basement and I was hooked

Jonathan Correia: 44:02

just that score when you're flipping through and you just hear like the tune like of the of the play piano. Oh, it sucks you in

Christopher Griffiths: 44:11

it really? Just just like, just like Georgia got sucked in.

Jonathan Correia: 44:18

And, and what do you what do you what do you guys think is so difficult about adapting the adult part of IT? I mean, it's it seems like it's really hard to crack and they talked about it a lot in in the documentary Tommy Lee Wallace, especially about how hard it was to to get Night 2 as he referred to it. Just right, what like, what do you guys think

James Jay Edwards: 44:43

that's one thing that about the documentary that was so cool is like everyone was real honest. They're like, Oh, we didn't quite land, the adult story and that's something everybody has known since it aired but hearing the people involved say it, you know, was like, wow, okay, so they knew it, you know, yeah. Once Yeah,

John Campopiano: 45:01

I think Chris, I really wanted to Oh, I'm sorry, Chris,

Christopher Griffiths: 45:03

go for it mate

John Campopiano: 45:04

I think we had talked pretty explicitly about wanting to like, be fair, you know. And like, even though we're fans of a lot of the films that we make documentaries about, to try to be as objective as possible to really be like, true. I know for me, one of my biggest regrets on the Pet Sematary documentary is that we kind of shied away from doing that a little bit. I don't really know why maybe we were afraid of pissing people off, or we didn't want Paramount's to think that we were slandering the film. But it I feel like we wanted to make sure that, you know, we were aware of the warts, not upon towards Richard Thomas, but we were aware of the warts of the mini series, the spider, some of the acting, some of the writing, part two has a lot of weakness to it. And we wanted to like be, I think, candid with that, and be honest about that. And, you know, sorry, but yeah,

Christopher Griffiths: 45:48

it's exactly what I echoing what John said, you know, it's that, essentially, you know, I think one thing that I've certainly been into why I do what I do, and probably some dramas that like, you know, when DVD first came around, and like, oh, delete scenes, making archives and this and that there was like a formula of documentaries, when they first came around, they're all like, kind of puff pieces, they're beautiful. They're rose tinted memories, and all this and that, but I think it is better to be honest about these things, you know, address the elephant in the room, but do it in a diplomatic way. Because you don't want people going like, well, they think it was good, but actually, you know, it's better to just be legit. And if anything, you know, you might uncover things about what could have been, and I know what we kind of lightly touch upon that in terms of like, you know, the approach to the narrative of part two, I think Tommy Lee Wallace says about, you know, an initial version being a bit of a prosaic approach or that they were going to have Deb's abusive partner be, you know, puppeteered. By Pennywise, they could just never, they never were able to solve that problem. And I think as everyone said, you've read it, you read the story of the kids resonates more with the audience than the adults. So that in itself is probably then you go into territory, where it's about like supersonic space turtles, and no matter how much you've got in the way of budget for a fact, I don't think you could ever achieve

James Jay Edwards: 47:09

that. But I think they even said, if they had known Tim Curry was going to be so great in the role, they would have brought him back for the climax, but it's like, all of a sudden, you know, they go into the spider thing. And Tim Curry is gone. Yeah. Like, no, people want to see that. And so I think, if they had known he was going to be so iconic, and that they probably would have rewritten the ending.

Christopher Griffiths: 47:31

100 Yeah, yeah. 100% I think and that's the other thing. You know, I remember, I think we had a discussion in the run up to me, you know, and Bart was great about this. Let's just be honest about the spider. And I think, again, hopefully, it shows we're, it's getting a good slate in it got a good slate in terms of its, you know, reception and its day. But actually, you know, in a way, going back to that point, I said before about uncovering things, had it been executed differently. It was all circumstance, why that didn't pay off. I mean, it is a very ropey end, and it does just take you right out of it at times. But what could have been? I mean, if you look at the behind the scenes footage we've got and the articulation of the animatronics, and our thing is incredible. What's the final film? Yeah, I mean, it's just these practices. I realized we're doing an audio interview here so you can't see it. But it's, you know, whatever you call them, you know, monocles and everything. You know, all moving about So, yeah, that's, that's the best way about being honest on these things.

James Jay Edwards: 48:24

It's a pretty cool effect. The spider I mean, the animatronics and the puppet, the puppetry of the spider is cool. Just not for the climax of IT. I mean, the payoff of this of this two night mini series, that shouldn't have been a spider.

John Campopiano: 48:40

I feel like Chapter Two tried to resolve that, like, I think machetes Chapter Two where you you know, in that climax where the kids are fighting Pennywise and he's constantly kind of like evolving like spider and then it's the spider with the Pennywise head on I feel like they tried to remedy that a little bit in the in the new version.

Jacob Davidson: 48:56

Yeah, best of both worlds.

Jonathan Correia: 48:58

And they also had like, you know, the them on like a mission collecting the talismans and stuff and it's, it's a hard one to crack because yeah, it's it's also just such like a big debts. And yes, this this space turtle, you know, that's that's just not only VFX very difficult, but it's also, you know, hard to explain within such a short amount of time. Like it almost has to be that

Christopher Griffiths: 49:25

from Stephen King, isn't that I think that's that's kind of one of the things with Stephen King, I think it's, it works better on the page than it does on the screen.

Jonathan Correia: 49:34

Yeah, he always has like a few things that we're gonna work outside of this. But yeah, one of the one of the things that I really enjoy is the fact that you guys do come so objectively, because like you were saying, DVD features are such fluff pieces, and it's always weird, watching a not so great movie, and then everyone's just like, oh, yeah, it's so great. It's so great. It's so great. You just kind of see dead in the eyes. Do exact guns just like wow, okay. Yeah, I love Morbius it's so it's so much fun.

James Jay Edwards: 50:15

I feel attacked at that Morbius comment?

Jonathan Correia: 50:20

I'm not sure Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it either, so I shouldn't make comments.

James Jay Edwards: 50:24

I didn't I, I like it as a vampire movie. I didn't like it as a superhero movie. Well,

Christopher Griffiths: 50:32

we thought we'd open the can of worms here.

James Jay Edwards: 50:36

But that's what is uh, we're wrapping up on time here. But um, what is next for you guys? What do you guys got come out now, John. There's something in your IMDB that really intrigues me. This Snapper documentary. Yeah, what is going on with that still be about a man eating turtle.

John Campopiano: 50:55

Yeah, that's a that's a short film, kind of another accident piece. But as a short doc that I did last year, and it played a bunch of festivals and I think was pretty well received. It's basically it's a story about a regional filmmaking team out here in New England that tried to make their own kind of Jaws version with a snapping turtle and went so far as to build animatronic turtles and got really creative with how they film certain things. The idea was to make a trailer to then pitch and hopefully sell the idea to them make the feature but again, they had all this amazing footage they shot on 16 millimeter and they had behind the scenes footage that someone was filming with a VHS camcorder and a lot of great photography. And so I thought it would be kind of cool, especially from the world that Chris and I come from, which is like telling stories about the making of like iconic films, or would it be kind of interesting to tell the story about a film that never really existed and fell flat and so it was a cool way to look at sort of what was happening in this part of the country in the in the late 80s with you know, DIY horror filmmakers. And so yeah, so that we did the festival run and it's actually gonna be coming out on Blu ray read coming out as a special feature on a disk. And we did a VHS run two VHS runs of that and just sold the streaming rights NorthAmerican streaming rights to it to Cinedign, which is you know, we're working with on penny wise they picked up anyway. So

Jacob Davidson: 52:20

let me say as a New Englander I'm very fascinated by this story, and I wish that we had an iconic killer snapping turtles.

John Campopiano: 52:26

We came close. It's not too late. It's not too late.

Jacob Davidson: 52:29

What could have been?

James Jay Edwards: 52:30

We love Jaws rip offs. So you know, whether whether it's a bear in grizzly killer whale in Orca or a snapping turtle, we would have eaten that right up,

Jonathan Correia: 52:39

especially in New England, another New England one. You

Jacob Davidson: 52:42

know that? Oh, yeah.

James Jay Edwards: 52:43

Or Tentacles what is Jaws rips? Yeah.

Jonathan Correia: 52:48

I don't know how that happened with this podcast. We're all in California, but two of us are New Englanders.

Jacob Davidson: 52:54

All right, go figure, transplants.

James Jay Edwards: 52:56

Yeah. Okay. I kind of derailed it with the with the question about snapper. What's next for you guys.

Christopher Griffiths: 53:01

So while we're all working at the moment, and actually yesterday, on feature length documentary of Robert England, called what's called formerly called Icon, now called Hollywood Dreams and Nightmares got much classier name, I think I'm very happy to hear that. And that is quite far down the line now. So I actually had Gary and Adam from Dead Mouse over here just yesterday. And I think we spent somewhere in the region of about 14 hours, just going through about a 20 minute section on the Nightmare on Elm Street films. So it's kind of like going through its final run now. Of it's one edits been put down at about just over two hours. And then we're just going through the whole a bit like the same process, we do have a Pennywise. Really that's the one thing I suppose it's good to clear up as well. But we do these interviews is it does take us a while to do these jobs, but it's about doing it right is the main thing. We all hold full time job day jobs. So that's always quite a fun juggling act to undertake. But it's, you know, Pennywise, we must have gone through a good few variations of that edits of a post production. So that's what we're doing right now with Icon it's a little bit quicker. And thank God, it's not green screen, which is always nightmare. It's a great act at the end, don't get me wrong. But when it gets that moment of you know, I'm doing the motion graphics or the editing this that I absolutely hate it. So luckily, we've actually shot these interviews for Hollywood Dreams and Nightmares in natural situations, you know, pretty backgrounds. So yeah, we've got that on at the moment. And RoboDoc, which has taken its time for our documentary on the original Robocop film. So if you'd like long documentaries, look out for that one. Because that's been a painful process, getting that one together. But we're nearing the end on all of these. So we're just taking it to you know, I think opportunities are starting to come up for a lot of us now, because we've gone from being like, hey, let's say sell DVDs out the back of someone's garage to like, oh, actually. So it was just going through that transition of dealing with legit official ways of getting these films. And we're really happy to be doing that as well. You know, I think we've got what it takes be really modest amongst all of us to deliver, you know, because we love doing that. So yeah, whatever comes our way. We'll keep cracking on.

Jonathan Correia: 55:26

Oh, yeah. And I'll definitely keep buying. I have so many documentaries that are just about the making of like one movie. And it's like, why this documentary is longer than the movie was. Like when they first announced the blu rays for Prometheus, and they're like, oh, yeah, there's a three hour making of documentary. I'm like, That's, wow. That's almost better than movie.

Christopher Griffiths: 55:48

They are really fun to watch. I think. Definitely. We're proud of the films, but we're also fans of making offs. And I think it's always the fun thing about how do you keep evolving them, you know, and get the best out of them. I think what's nice is that we ultimately, what we strive to make with these documentaries is almost the final word on these films. Do you know what I mean there's been the 10th anniversary, retrospective, the framing for the DVD, the 4k, the blu ray and everything like that. And I think what we try and do is go right, let's get to that. And let's be the one so let's get everything some documentaries over there. This all might have that person, how do we get everything all into one space? So that's the challenge. It's hard. It's really bloody hard at times. But it's just great to be like, Okay, that is the definitive, archival piece on the making of this film, that film or that person.

James Jay Edwards: 56:37

There's always in Annette O'Toole.

Christopher Griffiths: 56:42

Director's Cut.

James Jay Edwards: 56:46

Chris and John, thanks for joining us this morning. And Pennywise when when does it come out on VOD is the 26. July 26.

John Campopiano: 56:55

That's the one Yeah,

James Jay Edwards: 56:56

July 26. Great. So keep an eye out for penny wise the story of it? Where can everybody find you guys sit on on the internet or on the socials to find out what you guys keep up with what you guys are doing next.

Christopher Griffiths: 57:10

So many, does carrier pigeon? No, I think we I mean, I suppose in terms of the projects themselves, we usually have a social media channel per project. We've not really been up to date on the whole Dead Mouse Facebook page for quite some time. So that might need a bit of a cleanup. So usually, I would say it's the projects themselves. I think it's got Instagram is@Pennywisedoc. Anyway, it's darker on Instagram. Yeah, on Twitter. Yeah. On Twitter as well. And there's a Facebook page I think as well. So yeah, we're such they're easy to find find us.

James Jay Edwards: 57:54

They'll they'll find you somewhere. Yeah, exactly. Thanks for joining us. Our theme music is by Restless Spirits. So go give them a listen. Our artwork is by Chris Fisher. So go give them a look. Go give him a look. And us you can find pretty much on any of the socials as well. Eye On Horror. We've got them all. And they're all lovingly cared for by Correia, Correia.

Jonathan Correia: 58:17

Lindsey Don't forget our producer Lindsey. Yes.

James Jay Edwards: 58:19

Our producer Lindsey. So um, yeah, if you have any questions for us, hit us up and we will see you in a couple of weeks. So for me, James Jay Edwards.

Jacob Davidson: 58:29

I'm Jacob Davison.

Jonathan Correia: 58:30

I'm Jonathan Correia.

John Campopiano: 58:31

I'm John Campopiano

Christopher Griffiths: 58:33

and I'm Christopher Griffiths.

James Jay Edwards: 58:34

Keep your eye On horror.