Eye On Horror

Franchise Anchors

June 20, 2022 iHorror Season 5 Episode 10
Eye On Horror
Franchise Anchors
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

In this NEW EPISODE: The boys are over heated in their homes and reminisce about free air conditioning thanks to Movie pass, Jay reviews Jurassic World Dominion, Jacob reviews All About Evil, Correia reviews You Won't Be Alone, and everyone gushes over Crimes of the Future. The main topic is inspired by the recent news of Neve Campbell leaving Scream 6 and is about "Franchise Anchors." Can a franchise keep going without its main face? Can you recast without losing the magic? Should you keep going? Find out on Eye on Horror!

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James Jay Edwards:

Welcome to Eye On Horror, the official podcast of iHorror.com. This is episode 88 Otherwise known as to season five, Episode 10. I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host, Jacob Davison, how you doing Jacob?

Jacob Davidson:

Doing good. I can't believe it's summer. Okay, it's

James Jay Edwards:

really warm out here where we're all in Southern California and it is warm. Also with us yet again, as always is your other other host, Jon Correia how you agree?

Jonathan Correia:

There is no Correia, there's only Stickyman,

Jacob Davidson:

not the Stickyman!

Jonathan Correia:

There's only Stickyman and Stickyman has no friends. No, it's fucking hot shit here and my apartments like from the 50s. So it's not well insulated. So like, whatever the weather is outside, it's, it's like that, but like times three in here. I don't know how they did that. But whoever designed it that way is pure evil.

James Jay Edwards:

That's the one thing I've been working from home for like two years because the pandemic and we actually gave up our office space. So I'm not I won't be going back to the office unless I get another job. And that's the one thing I miss is the air conditioning of a office like like, like a professionally managed office building. Our house is actually generally comfortable. It's it's cool on hot days, and it's warm on cold days. It's keeps a pretty steady temperature, but nothing like walking in from like a 90 degree day and then you walk into air conditioning, free air and it makes you want to go outside and do it again.

Jonathan Correia:

I miss I missed the Movie Pass days, because I was unemployed during that time. And I would just go to a movie didn't matter what movie it was, I would just go to one just to sit in the air conditioning and nap in the back.

James Jay Edwards:

That I'm convinced that I have all these memories of going to the movies with my mom and my sister back when when we were little, like all the time. And I swear my mom would do it because it was a cheap way to get air conditioning. I mean, that's how I ended up seeing double features like Orca and Grizzly when I was six. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia:

That's a great double feature. Oh, it's

James Jay Edwards:

it was an awesome double feature. It was it was awesome. But you know, I was six. But hey, they must had air conditioning because there was. So what do you guys been doing?

Jacob Davidson:

Well, the other day I was at a screening of the brand new restoration of Peaches Christ's All About Evil.

James Jay Edwards:

Who is that? The Natasha Leone movie? Yep. The very same.

Jacob Davidson:

Cool. Yeah, that is actually my first time seeing it. I mean, I'd heard heard a little bit about it over the years but never really got the chance to see it and, and the home video release was a bit tied up. So you know, was a bit difficult to find. But Severin is putting out a new blu ray of the movie. And yeah, they did this whole new restoration. They've been screening around. And you had like Peaches Christ and a whole bunch of the casting crew were there. So it was pretty cool to hear that q&a.

James Jay Edwards:

But was Natasha Leone there?

Jacob Davidson:

No. Sadly, she was not. But they did have a large amount of the casting crew. They're like, let's see. Thomas Decker. Let's see. And Mink Stole was there. Cassandra Peterson wasn't but I was surprised that she was in the movie. But ya know, and just I didn't really know too much about the film going in. But it was very interesting as a throwback to the works of like Herschel Gordon Lewis and Roger Corman. And it's a movie about movie theaters. So how can I not love it? With that

James Jay Edwards:

cast? It sounds like John Waters influenced to

Jacob Davidson:

Oh, no doubt, no doubt, like they definitely went for pushing the boundaries of bad taste and all that a lot of gore, a lot of grade over the top kills. And yet I just said going forward type stuff.

Jonathan Correia:

We thought figured we'd do a triple feature of All About Eve, All About Evil, and the drag parody All About Alice. And it took me about halfway through All About Eve which I had never seen before. If anyone had told me how bitchy That movie was, I would have seen it years ago. But yeah, All About Evil doesn't really have much to do. It's All About Eve does it?

Jacob Davidson:

Not really. I mean, it's a fun play on words. But you know, it's like they do a lot of movie parodies stuff within the movie. Like there's because you know, the whole thing is that Natasha Leone is this small theater owner who goes crazy and starts killing people for the short films to make for her movies because she wanted to be a movie star and they got titles like Gore and Peace and The Maiming of the Shrew. So you know, that stuff like that? Yeah, it's just a, it's a fun, gory kind of set ish. Shocker. Horror throwback. And, ya know, I really dug it.

Jonathan Correia:

Have you guys seen You Won't Be Alone yet?

James Jay Edwards:

No.

Jonathan Correia:

It's like a folk Witch movie. With Noomi Rapace. It's playing right now on peacock. Like, it came out. This year, the premise is in a mountain village in the 19th century, a, this woman basically encounters a witch like this, which just shows up. And it is and she like this, the Witch kind of like takes forms. So you see, like this rabbit go buy get maimed off screen, and then like, the rabbit comes back. And it's the witch and stuff. And so she encounters this woman, and she wants to take the baby from this woman. And so the woman strikes a deal with her basically saying, you know, oh, all I want is to raise her. So when she's 16, you can take her to be your assistant, or were partner in crime or whatever. And so the witch agrees to it. And then the mother, the Witch before she leaves basically cuts her voice the baby's vocal cords so she can't speak and cut to the mom just basically hides the daughter in this cave for 16 years. And so she's basically become this like, new feral. And the witch finally comes and like, turns her into a witch and like, it's showing her like the life of being a witch and you know, taking other's lives and blood and stuff and it's it's really good she ends up the young girl ends up like taking over the lives of various people to try to learn what it's like to be a person because she never got to experience like, you know, love or a childhood or anything like that. And it's it's really it's it's very folk horrorish. But it's it's very ethereal and it's really cool Noomi Rapace is in it for a little bit, and it's just phenomenal. It's just like, you get to see your takeovers various lives and like, see how people react to suddenly someone they know just being kind like just suddenly going mute and childlike. It's, it's very interesting. And the witches or she is creepy, man, there's like a point where she just like randomly like just shows up and she's like, very woodsy witch and they go into the witches backstory on why she looks the way she does and it is yeah, it's a lot but it's it's on Peacock right now. I think you can rent to elsewhere if you don't have a Peacock account. But yeah, it's really good. It's You Won't Be Alone. Highly recommend.

James Jay Edwards:

The only thing that I've really seen since last time we talked the only new thing is Jurassic World Dominion. Any of you guys get to that one yet?

Jonathan Correia:

No.

Jacob Davidson:

Not Yet

James Jay Edwards:

it's okay. It's as a movie it is pretty good. It's just as a Jurassic World. It's a Jurassic Park movie. It's a it's a little weird. It's kind of like two movies in one it basically it takes place after Fallen Kingdom. So the dinosaurs are loose, they're living amongst the people. And the first like five minutes is actually pretty cool because it like shows almost like news reports of basically the chaos that these dinosaurs are wreaking, you know, and that's where a lot of the promo footage comes from, like the the T Rex at the drive in movie, you've seen that one, you know, basically people are just minding their own business in a dinosaur will come out of nowhere and you know, fuck shit up. But it's basically two movies. One is Laura Dern's Elle Sadler. She's like an environmental scientist. And she is investigating this new strain of locust, which is gigantic, and it's eating all the crops and it's going to basically collapse the entire food chain. And she notices that it's not eating crops planted by a certain company that is also in charge of rounding up the dinosaurs or keeping the dinosaurs at bay. So she enlists the help of Alan Grant Sam Neill to help her figure out what's going on with this and they go to the to the facilities, this place which is located in a dinosaur sanctuary. And, of course, Dr. Ian Malcolm. Jeff Goldblum is a consultant there. So you've got that storyline. And then you've got Chris Pratt and Bryce Dallas Howard, their characters. They're living with the clone girl from Fallen Kingdom. And someone kidnaps her because they, you know, she's a valuable asset. She's a clone, they want to study her. So so it's them trying to get her back. And of course, it's all intertwine. So in the third act, it all meets together, but it's almost like, up until that point, it's almost like two different stories. And my issues with it is the dinosaurs are almost like supporting characters. They're not they're not part of the actual plot. The plot is getting the clone girl back and investing in these locusts, which I guess the locusts are kind of like dinosaur locusts. But the dinosaurs are secondary. And that's not a Jurassic Park movie to me. You know, it's like, what you know. And, um, every time something like dinosaurs do provide some cool chases, like there, there's one scene I think they're in Malta, where Chris Pratt and Bryce Dallas Howard are trying to track down where their clone daughter is. And um, and this is another one that you can see in the previews where Chris Pratts on a motorcycle driving and the Raptors are chasing him, you can they provide some good Chase and exciting action scenes in that way. But every time the dinosaurs are gonna fight, there's a new apex predator in the sanctuary called the Giganto resource or something like that.

Jonathan Correia:

Oh, of course, there is, I'm sorry. The Jurassic World movies, every movie, they're like, Oh, we're gonna create this new genetically different, it's like, just give us the classics.

James Jay Edwards:

Now. There's not only is there that, but there's also a different one that is kind of even more tougher than that. But every time these fights are going to start, like when the T Rex first meets the Giganta, Soros, Chris Pratt and Bryce, Dallas, Howard are watching and they're like, oh, what's going to happen here? And then I think Chris Pratt even says something like, this isn't about us. And they go up, like they're gonna fight. And then I don't want to say what happens, but it's, it's over way before it should be. And that happens every time the dinosaurs are about the fight. You're like, okay, cool. Now we're gonna get some dinosaur action. And then you're like, that's it? What the? What is the Jurassic Park movie? So it was a little disappointing in that regard. And one thing I will say for it's two and a half hours long, and it didn't feel like it was two and a half hours on, which for me, you guys know is a huge deal. You know, I was never bored with it. So I guess you know, it's an exciting movie, from a movie standpoint, but just as a Jurassic Park movie, I'm like, aren't there supposed to be dinosaurs in Jurassic Park? They're dinosaurs there, but they're not you know, and see another thing when the people steal the clone girl, they also steal Blue's baby because blue has made her nest in the woods near Chris Prats cabin and she has had a baby and they they get her baby too so that's kind of you know, that kind of dinosaurs it up a little bit. But yeah, it's I mean, it's okay as a movie but as a Jurassic Park movie I'm like, really? You know, we people want to see dinosaurs in their Dinosaur Movies I mean maybe it's just me

Jonathan Correia:

I mean that's that's basically been my take with the whole Jurassic World trilogy as a whole it's just like just always left wanting more but like not in a like excited like yeah, I want to see more of what just happened just more like you were you were so close you had some like good elements in there you had some good part like Fallen Kingdom had that great scene where the volcanoes going and like the cloud that smoke takes over that was such a great scene and then there was just like a lot of like stuff going on where and it was just left me like wanting because it was just like I don't none of this is sticking none of this is landing for me and I saw someone make the comparison with the Jurassic World movies to the Star Wars sequel trilogy. And that like the first one is very nostalgic, you know, driven and it's very like rinse and repeat of like what's been done before. The second one introduces like a lot of new and exciting different things. They they made the point of saying like this has this comparison between the two trilogies has is nothing to do with quality, just purely like directions are going and then the third one, basically backtracks from everything that the second one was trying was setting up and doing exciting and just kind of falls back on nostalgia and kind of becomes a bit convoluted.

James Jay Edwards:

That's actually what I was gonna say. This one is way more nostalgic than the other two Jurassic World movies just because you have the big three of Sam Neill, Laura Dern and Jeff Goldblum in them. And of course, you know, and it shouldn't be a surprise at this point that it kind of is you've got that the Dr. Henry Wu is at his name. That is always the mastermind behind these projects, and he's in it as well. But yeah, It is this one's more nostalgic than the other two, I think,

Jonathan Correia:

to the point where they they don't even let Ali Sadler change her wardrobe. She's wearing the same look from 1993, which like, don't get me wrong, classic, iconic look like, girl, you got it. But like, also, like, you know, let your characters were something different. This isn't done.

James Jay Edwards:

There's a lot of fanservice in it. I mean, a lot of fanservice like little easter egg II things. But the presence of those three is not just fanservice it is it is it does play the nostalgia card, but they're there for an actual reason. I mean, it's worth seeing. But you know, don't get your hopes up too high for the dinosaur action, because it's just not there.

Jonathan Correia:

Is it? Is it a satisfying conclusion at least? Because like, that's,

James Jay Edwards:

yeah, I mean, it definitely wraps things up. I mean, it wraps things. Well, it doesn't it doesn't because it wraps things up as far as the storylines go. But you still are left with an earth that is that has dinosaurs living amongst the people. I mean, it doesn't take care of that problem. So, you know, it's just something that people have to live with after Fallen Kingdom. The dinosaurs so loose. That seems

Jonathan Correia:

a bit silly. Like oh, yeah, they, you know, with these, these genetically modified dinosaurs are just living amongst us. Yeah, we've been dealing with it for but it's fine. It's like, wait, what? I haven't seen it yet. So I'm trying to reserve judgment, but

James Jay Edwards:

what are you gonna do? I mean,

Jonathan Correia:

if the dinosaur kid is saying that, that this is a little silly, that's a bit silly.

James Jay Edwards:

I don't know. COVID still killing people. And we've seem to have accepted living with it. Yeah, it's true. I mean, on a smaller scale than dinosaurs, but you know, it's not that far fetched.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, dinosaurs sounds cooler.

James Jay Edwards:

The deaths are quicker with dinosaurs.

Jacob Davidson:

I was gonna I was gonna ask, So how was the the effects on the dinosaurs in this one? Ah,

James Jay Edwards:

for the most part, they're good. There's a couple places where, where you're like, that looked like a video game. You know? There's a couple places where I think that I almost see I was at a press screening, and I most like almost feeling like, is this still a work in progress? You know, there's a couple places where like, the dinosaurs will run off, and you're like, that looked bad. But you know, for the most part, they were okay. They they're not as awe inspiring as the first Jurassic Park, which I mean, even by today's standards, you look at the effects in the first Jurassic Park, and you're like, holy crap, look what they did. So, you know, it's not as you know, they're not as impressive as they were. But then again, the Dinosaurs aren't a priority in this movie, either. So,

Jonathan Correia:

I mean, the only movie that I've ever seen to capture the odds of seeing something come to life, like that was Troll Hunter. And like, the effects weren't the best in that. But like, I remember seeing Troll Hunter in theaters, and I was sitting there and I was like, Man, I feel like I feel like it's 93 again, and I'm a kid at the drive in and watching Jurassic Park. Seeing these giant trolls come to life like, that was great. But enough about dinosaurs. I need I need to talk about Crimes of the Future.

Jacob Davidson:

Yes, yes.

Jonathan Correia:

Let's let's switch gears from dinosaurs to how surgery is the new sex?

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah.

James Jay Edwards:

Now have either you guys seen the original Crimes of the Future? Students, okay, because I'm wondering how I was under the impression that this was like a remake of it. But the more I hear people talk about this one, it makes me think that it isn't

Jonathan Correia:

that he just reused the title,

James Jay Edwards:

or kind of or that it takes place in the same universe where in the original Crimes of the Future, basically there's like a like a plague that wipes out a bunch of mankind and it was caused by like, cosmetics, kind of a thing. What what is this universe?

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah, no, I think I think it's interesting, the kind of world building like Cronenberg does, especially for a movie like this. Because you know, like in that well in the main movie, you know, it's like this kind of pseudo dystopian rusted world with like all these like beach ships and like this in mostly takes place on like this seaside village. And also technology has kind of like a weird analog anachronistic mix, like people talk on like big ass walkie talkie phones, and yeah, the only TVs you see are like, the box TVs, but the surgery and genetic engineering apparently, you know, just is beyond what we have. And, yeah, no, it was just an interesting kind of setting it just in just the way and also the way the story is told, you know, just with Viggo Mortensen And then his, I guess, lover or being was working for artists.

Jonathan Correia:

performance artists, right?

Jacob Davidson:

performance artists Yes. Because Vigo Mortensen's character keeps on growing these new organs so as a part of their show that she removes them using this reformatted autopsy cyborg bed. And just man like, they're just the design and the aesthetic of this movie is just so Cronenberg and so unique.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, I also feel like Cronenberg, you know called up a lot of people that he wanted to work with or has worked with in the past and just when all right what is one thing that you can that what's one thing that's gross that you can do that you can do repeatedly? Hey, Vigo, can you make really gross mouth noises? Like just like you're constantly having acid reflux? Let's do that this whole time? Or? Hey, Kristen Stewart, can you you know, do you? Do you have tics? Can you just like amplify your tics by like, 10,000% to make people uncomfortable, and yet weirdly into it? Because boy, do they nail those things so well. Like there's just like, an underlying there's like an underlining like, visual is very beautiful, what's happening, but like, underlining like, uncomfortableness and like Vigo Mortensen's character because you know, in this future most of mankind doesn't feel anything anymore like pain or sexual pleasure because they lost all feeling except for like a few people who feel pain when they sleep. And Vigo is one of those people so there's like they show him like try like waking up from sleep. And he's just like, a lot which, which I relate to that man, I wake up sore all the time. But but that's just old age. But yeah. Yeah, dude. It's classic Cronenberg with like the mesh of like technology and flesh, you know, very eXistenz or Videodrome and

Jacob Davidson:

I actually just saw an interview with Cronenberg, where he said, you know, meaning can be gleaned from the movie, although wasn't his original intention of the movie, being an analogue for abortion rights and transgenderism and bodily autonomy from the government and, you know, other people. So it does come at a very timely period, especially when all those issues are at the forefront, particularly now. And you know, it's kind of thinking back on it, I can see those themes in the movie and because, you know, there's even because, you know, like Vigo's character repeatedly gets into conflict with the registry of was a new organs. Yeah. And there's like a bio biogenetic Vice Squad now,

James Jay Edwards:

it sounds like it is a completely different movie, because the original from what I remember that and it's been a while I've seen it, but um, basically because cosmetics are wiping out the population. It's mostly women that are getting killed off. So the main dude, he's become kind of like a fetishist. You know, like, he's, he's got like, got up like a collection of women's underwear of women's underwear and stuff and he's like a foot fetishist. And the all because there are no women around so like other men are like, you know, into his collection of underwear and stuff. And eventually, he he hooks up with this group of pedophiles to have this young girl who never did cosmetics or she's like, untouched. It's like, it sounds like it's a different, it just kind of takes place in a similar universe. He just reused the title I guess.

Jonathan Correia:

Sounds like a no budget Cronenberg.

James Jay Edwards:

Oh, it is it's it's a student film. It's from 1970. It's, it's, in fact, I think it got a release from Arrow along with Stereo, you know, like that, but but it's also a special feature on maybe Scanners. I know, Stereo is a special feature on maybe Videodrome and then Crimes of the Future is on Scanners or vice versa. I know that Criterion. Put one movie on one and the other on the other. But yeah, there. It's not really worth a release on its own just like Stereo. It's like a student film. It is it's absolutely no budget.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, cuz Arrow does have the blu ray set where it's the early works of Cronenberg. And it's all it's like, student films and stuff like that. And then I think they're they're also streaming on the Criterion, Criterion Channel as well right now. So yeah,

James Jay Edwards:

that wouldn't surprise me because I don't think that there's any it's probably not copied. I mean, it might even be on YouTube. These these are just I, I know, Stereo was a student film. Crimes of the Future may also be because it's from like, 1970 or something like that. It's it's, it's one of the early works like you know, Before he was well before he was a household name, and it is no budget so it doesn't have those Cronenberg effects that you're used to well before

Jonathan Correia:

he made his name with the Roger Corman produced Fast Company. i Sorry, I like to bring up that Cronenberg made a racing movie like that just that tickles my fancy so much. That was one of his first

James Jay Edwards:

he made Canadian TV movies too. I mean, he Yeah, but I think Shivers I think Shivers might have been his first like, quote, real movie,

Jonathan Correia:

the first like, feature length like Cronenberg, Cronenberg, like yeah, we're going into some really weird shit

Jacob Davidson:

guys, because we put them on the map.

James Jay Edwards:

Yeah, the first one that you would consider a Cronenberg movie.

Jacob Davidson:

See, I Well, I got the Christopher Lee bundle from Severin recently. So it's been interesting to go through a bunch of those movies, because it was the Euro cryptic Christopher Lee Volume Two, and the Return of Captain Invincible and they timed it for what would have been his 100th birthday. So 100 years Christopher Lee. Yeah, I watched The Return of Captain Invincible and you know, I'd heard of it I never really got the chance to see it till now. And this new restoration looks really good like the did a 4K transfer. And it's, it is kind of ahead of its time because yeah, it's like this superhero parody, but kind of more in the Richard Donner Superman era. So you got Alan Arkin, as the Superman analogue, Captain Invincible, who was like, a huge American hero during World War Two and afterward, but then McCarthy and he whack went after him as a communist, and it ruined his life and he became an alcoholic and just kind of farting around Australia for a while until his old nemesis, Mr. Midnight, played, of course, by Christopher Lee comes back to try and take over the world. So it's kind of about him trying to get his life back on track so that he can save the world. And the end, it has a great soundtrack that was composed by none other than Richard O'Brien from the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

James Jay Edwards:

Really?

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah. No, he, yeah, no, he did all the songs. And particularly My favorites were, of course, Christopher Lee's villain songs, because of course, you can have that bad guy have some songs. And yeah, it's just really goes to show what a renaissance man Christopher Lee was because, you know, like, you know, before he died, even put out that metal album, but yeah, he really had some good pipes, because like he sang his own songs and everything.

Jonathan Correia:

Oh, yeah. His metal albums are great. And he also did a few metal Christmas songs to like, there was a couple of years where it was like an annual thing, which was fantastic.

James Jay Edwards:

Is this a musical?

Jacob Davidson:

It is a musical.

James Jay Edwards:

Okay.

Jacob Davidson:

So yeah, it's a superhero parody musical from 1983. And it was and also it was directed by Philippe Mora who did, Howling 2, Communion, The Beast Within, Howling 3, all kinds of stuff.

James Jay Edwards:

Let's move on to our topic, which this was kind of inspired by the news that broke this week that Neve Campbell is not going to come back to spore for Scream 6. And it got us kind of thinking, first of all, it's hard to imagine a screen movie without Sydney. And it kind of got to us thinking, you know, what are these we kind of started calling them Franchise Anchors, which would be, you know, Neve Campbell and Scream it would, I guess you could say Angus scrim and Phantasm Tony Todd, and Candyman, although they did a pretty good Candyman, more than pretty good. They did a great Candyman movie without him. Maybe you could even say Jamie Lee Curtis and Halloween, you know, because it's debatable how good the Halloween movies without her were. And it got to us thinking, you know, you never want to say that an actor is replaceable. But how important are some of these personalities to their franchises? And let's start off with Scream and with Sidney. Yeah. And I guess the reason she's not coming back, the rumor is, is that they couldn't come to a money agreement. And it makes you wonder you're like, Okay, wait, so if they're not going to pay that, if they're not going to pay Neve Campbell to come back, there's got to be something else going on. And I was wondering with my theory is maybe she's the Casie Becker of Scream 6, where she's only in the first scene and the big shock was going to be killing her off. So her paycheck was less and she's just like, Oh, that's not even worth my time. You know, that kind of thing. I don't know.

Jonathan Correia:

Well, first of all I want to before we get into the this talk About Neve Campbell, not being in scrim. We don't know anything we don't know the definition of this deal we don't know all rumors speculation so

James Jay Edwards:

we're doing the worst thing you can do we're going by Internet rumors which because

Jonathan Correia:

because I would like to think that especially after you know, how great Scream 5 was and how much you know, love and you know, you know, respect was done to this series with that I would like to think that they weren't going to do like what they did to Laurie strode and Halloween Resurrection, which is, however, in the first five minutes is just kill her unceremoniously, you know, but I again, we don't know. What we do know is that Neve Campbell has said that the deal wasn't enough, like she knows her value, and she's standing up for herself, which I applaud like she knows her worth she knows her characters worth and you know, I think that's that's great that she's taking a stand I think it's I think it's terrible that she won't be in Scream 6. But there's also a part of me that's kind of you know, I love Sydney and I love Neve and she is definitely a huge part of the franchise but they set up a lot of really good characters in Scream 5 and they're bringing back Kirby to from Scream 4. So you know, I feel like you could make a Scream 6 without Sidney. I think it's gonna be a very different movie, but I don't know I feel like a lot of her story wasn't wrapped but is in a good place to kind of take a break you know what I mean? Like, if Scream 6 leads to like a grand finale with like, a Scream 7 or something with Sydney Story or something like that. I could see like maybe taking a break and then bring her back full force, you know, because she wasn't super involved in Scream 5 she was she was absent for most of the movie.

James Jay Edwards:

Usually the Scream movies revolve around Ghostface tormenting Sydney will now she's got with I mean spoiler alert. Now that Dewey is dead she's got no reason to come back to Woodsboro everything that she knew there is is now dead because Gale weathers doesn't live there. She's you know, you know important in New York or LA or wherever you know her she's doing her her big media thing. So there's not really a reason for her you know Ghostface is back in Woodsboro she's gone Good luck with that.

Jonathan Correia:

I mean, yeah, there there does become a certain point where it's like where you got to you got to do justice by the character and that means either letting them go for a little bit or you know, because again, I can't can't stop bringing up Halloween Resurrections and how poorly you had a great you bring back Jamie Lee Curtis for H2o and do a great story in in like her becoming the final woman and like standing up and like doing stuff that you haven't seen before with slashers and story to just like, kill her off like that. In the first like 5-10 minutes. It was it was that was worse than the Busta Rhymes you know, boxing Mike Myers scene, you know,

James Jay Edwards:

but not as bad as how they brought Michael Myers back after H2o though.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, I mean, I mean, there were some they there was some cool ideas in that movie, but like,

James Jay Edwards:

the way they brought Michael Myers back it reminds me of Misery. When when he tried to bring misery back and she got all pissed at him. That's not how it happened.

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah, that was that was a stretch.

Jonathan Correia:

But I mean, you know, again, it's yeah, it's a double edged sword I'm very excited you know, to see what they will do with these other characters and bring it back Kirby but definitely gonna miss Sydney but again, I can't I'm really glad to see that there's people that like especially like Neve Campbell that a know their worth and are willing to stand up for it but also know their character well enough to like, pay respect to I know Jamie Lee with Resurrection was locked in like that was purely con. Contract obligation. Like she would have been in legal trouble if she hadn't done it.

James Jay Edwards:

That was some Roy Scheider Jaws 2 shit.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, but but she was smart enough to be like No, i You only get me for a few days. But what but you mentioned at the top of the topic that the you know, there are some franchises that absolutely you know, that are synonymous with with a franchise and the franchise may live or die without them. You know, I think Phantasm is a fantastic example of it. Where I'm could you make a Phantasm movie without anchor scream? I mean, physically, yeah, you could you could assemble a crew and continue the story or reboot it I would think you'd need to do like a hard reboot of like the whole thing without Angus because he is the quite literal face of that franchise. And I don't know if Don Corleone or anybody else is going to really want to tap that without tap into that without Angus, you know, and of course, you know, rest in peace Angus Grim left us, you know, years ago, so I don't think there will be a Phantasm six ever. And I'm okay with that, you know, sometimes you just got to let them go. But what are what are some other franchises that, you know, can't be made without a certain character, at least that you guys feel? Because I know there's one that James wants to pull out that I kind of want to argue about.

James Jay Edwards:

It's not so much a character because I mean, you can you can say that you can't make a Halloween movie that Michael Myers but Halloween 3 didn't have him. And that's been one of the favorites. You know,

Jonathan Correia:

and you can make a Halloween movie without Laurie they did three of them with 4-6 I whether they work good or not, you know?

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting present, particularly with Halloween, because, you know, the whole thing with that franchise is that originally Carpenter wanted to do it kind of anthology style with each Halloween movie about a different like Halloween related horror, because, you know, like it was originally going to do have 2 but the one of Michael Myers back so he brought Michael Myers back he tried to kill off Michael Myers in 2 then he tried to do the anthology format thing with three which at the time didn't go over so hot, and then they had to bring back Michael Myers. But yeah, it could have been that after Halloween 3, if it had done well, then we could have gotten a whole bunch of Halloween movies about like different weird Halloween stories. So it's, it is kind of just interesting, you know, in terms of the trajectory of a franchise like that, because it could just not involve them at all.

Jonathan Correia:

I always said it's Halloween 2, is a double edged sword because I really liked how the original Halloween 2, but I it killed a franchise that I really wanted, which was a Halloween. Exactly that a Halloween series where each movie was a different like horror film centered around the holiday. So like if we had Halloween, if we had Season of the Witch as Halloween two, we could have had a completely different and awesome franchise. Yeah, I feel but again, I still love Halloween too and like, and like the majority of the sequels that came out after so I mean, you know, they were in a decent timeline with that, but I'm gonna say Nightmare on Elm Street.

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah.

Jonathan Correia:

James and I this was kind of what sparked the topic was we kind of got into a little argument with it. Because, you know, obviously, you can't make a Nightmare on Elm Street movie without the character Freddy Krueger, and Robert England is Freddy Krueger, but I think you could make a Nightmare on Elm Street movie with a very different Freddy Krueger like you can't repeat what England did. Which is that that mesh of like, horror and comedy and, and what have you, and if there's one I know the remake, it pisses off a lot of people, but I don't think that's a fault of the actor who played him. I think Jackie Earle Haley was gonna was going to be a great Freddy. Especially if handled right, which is, which was that like, you know, I like the prospect of the oh, maybe Freddy was innocent. No, he was just pure evil, but like, kind of cutting out a lot of the comedy and just having a be mesh. I just think the film was handled very poorly in the making of it. But I think that was like the one decision that they nailed, which is him taking the mantle, but I don't know what do you guys think?

James Jay Edwards:

Even if Robert England played Freddy Krueger in that remake? It would you're right, it wouldn't have saved movie because they tried to humanize Freddy they tried to make him sympathetic with the whole wrongfully accused angle and then they pull that rug out from under you. Oh, no, he actually did do that. You make up your frickin mind how, you know, you're trying to manipulate us, but then you're re manipulating us. Anyway,

Jonathan Correia:

for me it was it was just the uninspired kills and dream sequences where it's like you're doing this you're doing what's been done before but with horrible CGI, and like no tension in the scene.

James Jay Edwards:

You remember when that came out? It was on the heels of you know, Zombie's Halloween and the Texas Chainsaw remake. So remaking legendary franchises, was the thing to do. And I think that they bit off more than they could chew with Nightmare on Elm Street. Because it's one thing to do with, you know, I don't know, it's one thing to do it with a character who's just ominous and brooding. But when you do it, you know, Freddy Krueger is much more personality than your average slasher killer.

Jacob Davidson:

I liked actually the the idea pitched by Robert England himself about a potential new Nightmare on Elm Street movie where he said he thought that they should do one where Freddie is played by an ensemble of different actors because you know, like different people, you know, imagine Freddie differently. So their nightmares about Freddie would mean that you know, like they're imagining these kinds of variations of Freddy Krueger. So you can have a whole bunch of different actors and people play Freddie in these different scenarios.

James Jay Edwards:

But then it makes seem like he is just a figment of their imagination. And the scariest part about Nightmare on Elm Street to me was everybody dreaming about the same guy? Even though they didn't know what he looked like, they're like, you know, they describe it. They're like, Oh, yeah, I dreamt of him too. So, I mean, they would have to, they would have to work on that in order to get to do it. Because if everyone pictures Freddie differently, then it actually does just become subconscious and not real. Whereas if he goes into their dreams, and everybody dreams about the same guy, then you're like, Okay, no, this is real.

Jonathan Correia:

I always like the fan casting of Kevin Bacon take even Robert England said that he you know, approved that don't quote me on that because I you know, unresearched, but I think I read somewhere that someone just be like, yeah, Kevin Bacon would do it. I'm like Kevin Bacon, I think could pull it off. Like he he can get like twisted and bitchy.

James Jay Edwards:

If Robert England approved of that he'll let us know because he listens, does he? He listens to our podcast

Jonathan Correia:

out everyday to now. But yeah, I mean, one of the things that came up when we were pre discussing this is a lot of it actors and characters that are villains. You know, like, obviously, we talked about Neve Campbell and Sydney being the franchise, anchor of Scream, but a lot of the ones that we talked about, were like Freddy, or like, you know, obviously, you know, a lot of different people can play Jason and you know, we've had like, eight different people play him. But you know, when we get someone like, like Pinhead with HellRaisers here, yeah, no,

James Jay Edwards:

I was just about to say you can tell when it's not Doug Bradley playing pinhead.

Jonathan Correia:

But, but again, I oftentimes with these things, I think it's just the quality of the films themselves, because when we bring up that example, those Hellraiser movies where Doug Bradley didn't come back, we're very much so just to keep the rights and we're super bargain bin, I mean, most of those Hellraiser movies will sit later sequels were anyways, but Doug Bradley was always great as pinhead, but I, you know, it's always interesting because, like, you know, you think of like, Evil Dead. You know, that's one of the few franchises where, like, the main star, and the main lead of it isn't the villain isn't the Freddy Krueger of it. It's Ash who's goofball and and, you know, so he was always like, a horror icon that wasn't a villain. And, you know, it's hard to think of that franchise without ash. And yet, they made an amazing movie with Fede Alvarez's is Evil Dead without ash. And it was awesome.

James Jay Edwards:

But in order to do that, they had to completely strip any humor out of it, because there's no humor whatsoever in Fede Alvarez's Evil Dead. And that pissed a lot of people off people were like, Oh, this isn't evil. Bad. It's like, oh, well, you can that Evil Dead still exists. You can go back and watch that. This one is shit your pants terrifying.

Jonathan Correia:

What you weren't laughing at the box cutter tongue scene seen?

James Jay Edwards:

I wasn't laughing about it raining blood either.

Jonathan Correia:

Oh, man.

Jacob Davidson:

Not exactly a barrel of laughs. So

James Jay Edwards:

that movie was intense.

Jonathan Correia:

But I will say this. Could anybody else play Ash? No,

James Jay Edwards:

no,

Jonathan Correia:

no Ashe is Bruce Campbell. Just like and that's why that's why I think with with Scream six, it's like, could you make a Scream movie without Sydney? I think so. I think it would be very different. I think you would need to take it in very different ways. First of all, you got to change you know, Ghostface motivation, because most of the time like you said, it's getting Sydney back. It's getting back at Sydney. It's doing some has, you know, it's very something involved with like, Sydney's fame or something like that. So you're gonna have to go in a very different direction with the motivation behind Ghostface if Sydney's not there, but you can't replace her with a different actress. I mean, we saw it in Scream 3, that it just doesn't work.

James Jay Edwards:

That's why I'm saying you can't the one thing they cannot do is have like the doorbell ring, they go in the answer it in the person's back is to them. They turn around and it's like, Jennifer Love Hewitt. And they're like, oh, Sydney, you're here. No, that's the one thing. People will just stand up and walk out of the theater.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah. Well, I mean, remember in the early 2000s, when there was talks of an Evil Dead remake, and they were gonna have Ashton Kutcher play Ash and like, rumors again, I don't know if that was ever like an actual thing.

James Jay Edwards:

Ashton Kutcher will set us straight because he listens. Now. Yeah,

Jonathan Correia:

he's a big listener. But like there was I was skeptical about the Evil Dead The the Fede Alvarez Evil those rumors circulating and it's like I guess I could see the comparisons on why someone would think like, oh yeah, no, let's have Kelso be Ash, but like, No, dude, that's that's Campbell. That's Bruce like you can't make an an Evil Dead anything with Ash without Bruce like, you just you can't and but you can make an Evil Dead movie without him. And they have it Dead, but I walked out of that just like I'm like, Okay, that was Great and they're gonna do it again with Evil Dead Rises, was great. And the thing is they didn't. It's like how do you which I'm so fucking hyped for that it's gonna it's it's either gonna be the greatest thing ever or the worst thing ever. I'm here for it no matter what remake Evil Dead? You don't try. They it's they basically took the cabin in the woods Necronomicon the concept and that's it, you know, the rest of it. They just they, you know, they they just made it. They took the Three Stooges out of it. And yeah, I mean, they, there's there's little nods, you know, like with the art hand cutting off see and you know, or, but just like the overall they understood what was at the core of the mythology and what was at the core, which is, you know, there's these beings, they take over bodies, and they drive people nuts, and they cause self mutilation. And they just fuck with people. But instead of doing it in a in a, you know, Three Stooges way like they do and Evil Dead one and two. It's very, like, I'm going to show you the most fucked up thing I could possibly do right now with this body. That's the that's the thinking of the deadite right there. Because, you know, I can get into the mindset of a deadite really well. That's where you get iconic scenes, like, the fucking box cutter scene was just so uncomfortable. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's always interesting. How will like what it's knowing when when to exit, you know, with a franchise with a character with anything, you know? Do you stop your franchise before it goes to space? Or do you take it to space? Because it could be amazing. I mean, you know, Leprechaun In Space. It worked. Because it really went for it. Jason X, you know, but I mean, does every when when do you when do you let a franchise go when it's funny because we call this franchise anchors and, and I made the comparison of when do you let the anchor go and sail into the sunset? You know, essentially either with a character with the franchise, but yeah, the these examples that we talked about, where it works without them are all hard. Not reboots, but hard, changing directions. So when we talk about like, a Halloween movie without Laurie strode and Jamie Lee Curtis, we're talking about taking her character out completely whether it's dropping the whole Michael Myers thing with Season of the Witch or instead focusing on a completely different character with Halloween 4-6, you know, or just doing a reboot.

James Jay Edwards:

The way they did Candyman was great because basically, it is a sequel. I think there might have been some Tony Todd in like the the mythology segments of it. So they didn't completely leave him behind.

Jonathan Correia:

But final act Yeah, yeah.

James Jay Edwards:

But the way that the way they did it is they almost didn't give Candyman his own face. He was he was he was kind of possessing people. So that it made it Tony Todd is Daniel Robetie. And this movie didn't try to give give Daniel Robetie it a different face. So you know, so even though they only had Tony Tode for probably a day when they shot but you know, it still is, you know that the mythology is still there. It's still definitely a sequel, even though it basically is the same as the first movie. The mythology is in place. So that's the way to do it. If you're going to you know, I don't know if Scream can do that. Because I mean, they can still mention Sydney, they probably will still mention Sydney. But you know, you can't they can't just use a body double and never show her face.

Jonathan Correia:

You can't Fake Shemp Sydney. And that's the thing with the new Candyman. Two was that it unlike Candyman, two and three, it wasn't about Daniel robot Thai. It was about them. It was about mythology, and how we how we pass that on and how it goes on, which is what you know, the the original movie was about anyways. So the new Candyman, the mythology that took over was the story of Helen, and what she did in Chicago back in the 90s. And that kind of took over and then, you know, it morphed and that's what happens with urban myths and myths. And these campfire stories they get passed on this the story changes because of people's ability to, to recount or putting their own spin on things, which is why Candyman became this man who gave out candy to kids and in the projects and then was like, was murdered by the police, you know, instead of Daniel Robetie. And it was, but it was also about you know, Tony Todd's Candyman kind of taking it back because it became too much about Helen a bit. And so he was like, you will become my new you will become, you will keep my story going, essentially. And you know and and I think that's the main thing with with continuing something at all is just knowing what the knowing the original knowing and respect it you know, if you don't respect something you can't expect it to continue going you know that's where you get the bargain bin Pinhead but the super recent ones or that's where you get, you know, A Nightmare on Elm Street remake because I feel like they just didn't quite understand why Freddy worked. So well.

James Jay Edwards:

Have you seen that meme? This is going along the same lines. So the meme where it shows Dr. Loomis saying saying he had the blackest eyes and then it shows one of the front one of the later Michael Myers where you can totally see his eyes. And they're not and they're not the blackest eyes at all.

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah. Because I mean that's the thing like a lot of the these sequels or continuations or stuff where basically all around rights, like, how many times did they pump out a Hellraiser Children of the Corn or whatever, just because they wanted to hold on to the rights. Like, like, I think a bunch of that Hellraiser movies where other movies that just got pinheads slapped in there so that they could do it as a copyright. A shelter. Yeah.

Jonathan Correia:

I mean, dude, there's a Children of the Corn movie that was made during the pandemic, what happened to that?

Jacob Davidson:

I have no idea. Did anyone else totally forget that that

Jonathan Correia:

happened? Like,

James Jay Edwards:

you know, who I also think did it right, moving away from an anchor and they never moved completely away from him because he was in all of them. But the Saw movies, I think, because I mean, Tobin Bell's character, he did come back for all the later ones, but it was like in flashbacks, but I thought that the whole having Jigsaw disciples, I mean, don't get me wrong, the Saw movies get progressively worse, you know, and, you know, the one I think is brilliant. And then they just, they, they it's it's like a slope. But as far as coming up with new antagonists, and moving away from Jigsaw when he was obviously dead. You know, I they watched his head get cut in half during his autopsy, the guy is dead. But the way that they did, like the whole disciples thing, I thought was pretty clever. You know, a good way to keep it going. Because nobody watched the Saw movies for the stories, they watch him for the traps. It's like Final Destination. It's the same movie five times. Well, you can say that, 2, was a little different. But um, you don't watch Final Destination for that story. You watch it to see how creatively death is going to kill people.

Jonathan Correia:

I mean, I we talked about this too, before, I think the Saw movies were reaching quite a bit with the sequels. But I did I did like the disciples that granted how I like the idea of like, the disciples of Jigsaw, especially since you know, he's such a self righteous character. You know, of course, people are gonna get like, sucked up into that egotistical, you know, self righteousness. But I mean, I do think that it was reaching,

James Jay Edwards:

it was totally you. The thing that the funny thing is that reaching with the reaching of that is one of the things that we talked about with Charlie, in my favorite interview I've ever done is where we're like, the last not even the last act, you could say the last moments of every song would be where they show, basically, the events of the film, but from a different angle, is where that that's where you're kind of reaching in some places, you're like, Well, that didn't happen. It's going back to Misery again. That's not how that happened. You happen to suspend your disbelief with the Saw movies.

Jonathan Correia:

I just always thought it was silly, where it would be like, oh, yeah, this is the the cousin of the murderer. And how did he know all this stuff? Because in four movies ago, he was hiding in the cupboard during this thing, and we're gonna reveal it dramatically during that time. And it's just like, wait, what? Yes, no, he definitely is the killer because he was a child at the daycare next door to one of the trap houses and this is the thing and he walked in on a cigarette break. It's just like, wait, what? Like, I always, I, I think we said it during the Charlie interview. I always loved the recap, showing what wasn't there before, but it's always

Jacob Davidson:

quick flashes.

Jonathan Correia:

Yeah, it was always it was always like a, like a delicious, like, oh, like grown thing. But like, that's what, like, I think it was Jigsaw like I almost wanted to just skip to that part, you know? Alright, let's just get to the data data, you know, bits In a

James Jay Edwards:

jigsaw was cool because it was like you had he had like groupies there was like a people making, you know, either buying his traps or remaking them from his plans that jigsaw. Jigsaw was a step up from what was the one before The Final Chapter?

Jacob Davidson:

Saw 3d? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In 3d

Jonathan Correia:

Agree to disagree?

James Jay Edwards:

Yeah. All right. Well, let's, let's get out of here then let's agree to get out of here too. So what do you guys think about these franchise actors? What? What movies could not go on without their main actor? And which ones? Can they just kind of, you know, move on from? I kind of agree with you, Correia. I think Scream can if there were enough survivors and enough developed characters in five that they can do it without Sydney. But one thing I don't want to see is then replace Neve Campbell and I think they're smart enough to not do that. I mean, there would be riots in the street if they replaced her. So they'll just move on without her they may mention Oh, wait. That would actually suck if they mentioned. Oh, did you hear about Sydney? Yeah, she was cutting to a million but you like they do like a Grudge? You know, like, like a revenge off screen killer.

Jacob Davidson:

Yeah, I was thinking like, you know, they did that American Psycho 2 movie with Mila Kunas where they kill off Patrick Bateman in shadow.

James Jay Edwards:

Yeah, now they? I don't think they'll do that either. They'll probably just they probably just won't mention her. Which will be even weirder. Because it's such a big part of the franchise. But we'll see. We'll see how they handle it.

Jonathan Correia:

But even so, like no matter what, if you're going to do a Scream movie without Sydney, it can't be a finale. It can't be an end. You know what I mean? Like there? Yeah.

James Jay Edwards:

Like it has to be a beginning. It has to be a new beginning.

Jonathan Correia:

It either has to be a new beginning, or it has to be a middle act. You know what I mean? Like, if you're going to if you're going to do a definitive end to the franchise, Sydney needs to come back and she needs to be done with justice. And Neve Campbell needs to be paid accordingly.

James Jay Edwards:

So you're saying Scream 6 is going to be flame thrower chrome Ghostface.

Jonathan Correia:

I mean, I wouldn't be against it. I thought that was one of the most fun parts of Scream five was seeing the steps equal that went bonkers. But I mean, no, I'm just saying like, you can't have a grand finale without Sydney. And you can't have Neve Campbell without paying our quarterly

James Jay Edwards:

So yeah, there's more to this story. I should. mean, all we know is that Neve said she won't be taking part. And the rumor is that it was actually it's nine rumor she actually said, I know my worth, and I know what the characters worth. So she actually did say it was money, which is cool. Yeah. Okay, cool. Let's get out of here. Our theme song is by Restless Spirits. So go give them a listen. And our artwork is by Chris Fisher. So go give him a look. You can find us on any of the socials. We're at Eye On Horror on all of them, or we're at iHorror.com You can find us in all those places. So hit us up. Let us know what franchise anchors you think, are indispensable. And you know, let me know if I'm wrong about Saw. Like Correia just did.

Jonathan Correia:

You're not wrong. We can have differing opinions.

James Jay Edwards:

We'll see you guys in a couple of weeks. So for me, James Jay Edwards.

Jacob Davidson:

I'm Jacob Davison

Jonathan Correia:

and I'm Jonathan Correia.

James Jay Edwards:

Keep your Eye On Horror.

Intros
Its Hot Outside Boys
Jacob Reviews All About Evil
Correia Reviews You Won't Be Alone
Jay Reviews Jurassic World Dominion
The Boys Review Crimes of the Future
You Can't Bring Up Cronenberg Without Correia Mentioning Fast Company
Jacob Dives Into Severin's Christopher Lee in Eurocrypt Vol. 2 Set and The Return of Captain Invincible
Franchise Anchors
Phantasm Without Angus Scrimm? Fuck off
Halloween without Laurie? Without Michael Myers? I Mean, Its Been Done Before
Freddy Krueger and the 2000's Remake Boom
You Can Have Evil Dead Without Ash, But You Can't Have Ash Without Bruce Campbell
When Do You Let The Anchor Go And Sail Into The Sunset?
Saw Let Jigsaw Die, But Jigsaw Never Left
Outros
Restless Spirit Goes Hard ASF