In this episode, Correia goes to Disneyland and Jacob attends a When Animals Attack movie marathon. The boys review The Sadness, Watcher, and Studio 666 again before digging into The Found Footage Phenomenon documentary. They discuss their favorite FF Horror films, history and trends with the genre, and contemplate what the future holds for FF horror. The Found Footage Phenomenon is now streaming on Shudder!
https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorror
Follow us on the socials: @EyeOnHorror or check out https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorror
Get more horror movie news at: https://ihorror.com
In this episode, Correia goes to Disneyland and Jacob attends a When Animals Attack movie marathon. The boys review The Sadness, Watcher, and Studio 666 again before digging into The Found Footage Phenomenon documentary. They discuss their favorite FF Horror films, history and trends with the genre, and contemplate what the future holds for FF horror. The Found Footage Phenomenon is now streaming on Shudder!
https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorror
Follow us on the socials: @EyeOnHorror or check out https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorror
Get more horror movie news at: https://ihorror.com
Welcome to Eye On Horror, the official podcast of iHorror.com. This is episode 87. Otherwise known as season five, episode nine. I am your host James Jay Edwards and with me as always is your other host, Jacob Davison. How you doing, Jacob?
Jacob Davidson:I'm doing great. I just celebrated my birthday this weekend. Oh,
James Jay Edwards:happy birthday.
Jacob Davidson:Thank you. partied hard. With a lot of cupcakes and horror movies.
James Jay Edwards:That's the best way to do it. Also with us, as always, is your other other host, Jon Correia. How you doing Correia?
Jonathan Correia:Happy birthday, Jacob.
Jacob Davidson:Thank you. Thank you.
Jonathan Correia:How old are you now?
Jacob Davidson:Three *mumble mumble*.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, that's right. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I forgot you had your your age removed on IMDb. So we should have you here on the podcast.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah.
Jonathan Correia:I'm doing good. I am finally home. I haven't been home for most of May was in Vegas. And then I just got back from Star Wars Celebration. Helping do the coverage with EW and People. So that that was fun. Because when I finally went to Disneyland for the first time ever did haunted mansion, and it was everything I ever wanted. And I made my group go on it five more times.
James Jay Edwards:I really went out six times.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. But the Matterhorn scared the shit out of me when that Yeti popped out.
James Jay Edwards:No matter where it's my favorites. I remember the Matterhorn before it had this is speaking of how old we are. I remember the Matterhorn before it had the Yeti.
Jonathan Correia:It didn't used to have the Yeti?
James Jay Edwards:I like I said I'm old. But I remember the commercials. Yeah, it hasn't always had the Yeti. And I remember the commercials they had to introduce the Yeti they showed it was like this ominous Matterhorn and it was dark and snowy to go something new is lurking inside the Matterhorn. And then you know it was the Abominable Snowman.
Jonathan Correia:That's dope.
James Jay Edwards:He's actually gotten kind of more high tech over the years he used to be basically typical like Pirates of the Caribbean type animatronic stuff but now he's pretty slick. I mean they will all have Disneyland I think when they update they update pretty well but
Jacob Davidson:they got the technology Yeah,
Jonathan Correia:dude it was it was great because we we did the A was Disney after dark so it was like almost 1am When we did metal horn so it was dark dark and like when you're going up and they do that like the sound and like the shadow of the Yeti going up the thing I didn't realize there was a thing next to me so outside I looked to my right and there's just like I just red eyes glaring at me and it scared the shit out of me. It was great. And then Mr. Toad's wild ride Ah, that was great man. I didn't realize that actually took you to hell so have the little animatronic devil and shit. I mean the Star Wars rides were cool but I love the old school nature of amusement park rides like the old ones with animatronics and all that stuff so I was just forcing everyone to go on those which were great.
James Jay Edwards:Mr. Toad's is funny because when you go to hell, it gets hotter and and it's like all hot and then like you're almost to the point where you're like oh shit it's too hot I'm going to pass out and then it then it ends and you go in and then it's like this washer cooler hits you Mr. Toads when he goes to hell is it's pretty effective. I used to when I was little The Haunted Mansion was quote the haunted house. But um, Snow White was the other haunted house so to speak, because there was like That witch and the apple and all that other crap, you know? Yeah.
Jonathan Correia:No, it was it was great. But this is a horror podcast so enough about Disneyland
James Jay Edwards:we're talking about haunted stuff and yetis,
Jacob Davidson:its a horrifying world after all.
Jonathan Correia:It is it is we avoided the shit out of it's a small world not need that ear worm.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, now that's scary.
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, yeah, it's a small world one of those ones that if you've seen it once although you know it is kind of cool since they added the Abominable Snowman it's a small world just kidding. They didn't
Jonathan Correia:How dope would that be if they added like a samquanch
James Jay Edwards:Loch Ness monster
Jonathan Correia:just suddenly like towards the end you just see the same squinch from night of the demon hole. You know what it's known for
James Jay Edwards:now. Now at the end they need saxSquatch to bust out and start ripping the melody
Jonathan Correia:there needs to just be like a samsquanch where it's just like a bunch of different samsquanchs all throughout it. That'd be great.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, man, we got the Yeti on the matterhorn. So you know, they just went all in on Abominable Snowman Bigfoot. SamSquatch all that
James Jay Edwards:they should put a big foot on Big Thunder Mountain.
Jonathan Correia:It's true. Or someone just needs to make that amusement park that's in Scooby Doo. Like, is it or is it Scooby Doo 2? spooky Island?
Jacob Davidson:No, it's that was the first one although there wasn't the second one with like, the Museum of monsters are something
Jonathan Correia:that too. I'm just saying like the live action Scooby Doo movies gave the world so many good ideas for like amusement parks and museums. And no one has done it yet. And that disappoints me, because there's people out there who can afford to do this, like billionaires and stuff. And what do they do? They just like hoard money. It's like, Dude, you could make spooky Island or monster Museum and yet, anyways, so who saw The Sadness?
Jacob Davidson:I did? I did.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, yeah. The Sadness is now on Shudder. And Jacob, what'd you think?
Jacob Davidson:that was some heavy shit?
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. So for those who don't know, The Sadness is a new virus slash zombie film that's on Shudder. And it's been making its rounds as beat just going for it. I don't know how to describe it. Like they just go for it. Basically, it's like a rage virus that makes people want to kill an Eat and commit sexual assault like crazy. And, yeah, torture. I mean, yeah, it's definitely they go for it. They're one of the first scenes takes place on a subway, and this dude just starts stabbing the shit out of people. And then other people in the car get affected by the virus, and then they start stabbing and the next thing you know, it's just like a dozen or so people just attacking the crap out of each other. And it's shot really well. And the effects are really dope. But, and I had, I had a little bit of this fear going into it that sometimes when mu- filmmakers go out to make something extremely disturbing, you get I feel like I get desensitized halfway through. Like there's just so much of it going on that like there's there's no bit like the big wow moments, just kind of like, I don't know, like they they lose their sparkle. And that's a weird way to put it.
Jacob Davidson:Just it's trying too hard at a certain point. Like
Jonathan Correia:I need a little bit of buildup, you know what I mean? Like I think we're like prime example is Audition by Takashi Miike. A, that film plays out like a really bad romantic comedy for like most of the movie, which makes the last act so effective, you know, because you've just been sitting there kind of bored a little bit throughout most of it, and then all sudden, you get the tick, tick, tick, tick tick with the piano wire and stuff this film it just once it starts, it doesn't really stop. But it is really effective in its depiction of disturbing acts. What do you think?
Jacob Davidson:I really liked it. And yeah, and also, this is a foreign film from Taiwan. I thought it was interesting, although it the other thing being that it was heavily influenced by this comic book horror series called Crossed by Garth Ennis. Did you ever read that? No. Yeah, no, I mean, it was a similar concept of the I feel like this did a pretty good job of streamlining it because ya know, is just kind of like started like our friend has and got a bunch of different other writers and the adds a whole thing but now The Sadness I felt did a pretty good job of both kind of the build up and maintaining the sheer horror for depravity. Yeah, and just it's a you know, is is just when you think it's peak, like the violence somehow manages to get even more extreme and depraved. So it you know, it's, I feel like it's kind of like a balancing act in that regard. Plus, you got the main plotline with the boyfriend and girlfriend trying to reunite the amid the contagion. So, yeah, no, I mean, it's definitely going to not be for everyone. Like, I mean, there was quite a few scenes where even I was squeamish, but yeah, you know, it's definitely a very hard core and kind of downbeat Zam zombie infection type of movie.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. Like it is well made. And it is a lot of fun. It's very depraved. I can just already see it being one of those horror bro movies where it's like, Oh, you didn't like The Sadness, what do you a wussy? But it's like, it was fine. It was you know, it did what it did what it wanted to do. And they and they did they went for it. Like that's, that's my main thing is that they went for it. And they achieved it and making something that depicted a lot of depravity and it was gnarly. And the effects were awesome. So I mean, like, kudos, you know, but I can see why that's not a lot of people's cup of
Jacob Davidson:tea. Oh, most definitely. Yeah,
James Jay Edwards:I saw something that Jacob had talked about already a few weeks back Watcher, the Claudia Kuno movie. It was not the movie I thought that it was going to be I was expecting it to be kind of more of like a like a, like a stalk and slash kind of thing. It's actually pretty much of a psychological thriller, it takes a while to get to where it's going. Because mica Monroe is the is the heroine, and the whole movie, you're wondering if basically what it is, is she thinks that there's this dude who is looking at her from across the street, you know, into her apartment, and then she thinks he's following her around. And the whole movie, you're kind of wondering, you know, or she's wondering, and everyone around her is wondering, is this actually happening? Or is it all in her head? It's like, it's, you're questioning her as the narrator. But also, it's kind of like, just an exercise in paranoia and kind of gaslighting, too, because the people around her are like, are you sure that you you know, he lives in the neighborhood? Are you sure that you didn't just both end up in the same place at the same time, kind of a deal? And you really don't get any answers until the third act now the third act absolutely pays off. So. So you know, be patient with it, because it does move kind of slowly until you get there. But you do get your answers and but it's weird, because the whole time you're like, Okay, which is it? Because it does kind of paint the, I mean, the movie, kind of gaslights you about the gaslighting that this girl is going through because you're like, maybe she is imagining this. I don't know. It's, it's pretty well done. As far as that goes, you know, it's some of the like, you're talking about the horror bros, the horror bros is gonna be like, well, that movie was boring as shit. It's like, well, if all you want is, you know, screaming and you know, boobs. Yeah, it's boring, but it's not, you know, it's not even. You almost hesitate to call it a horror movie. Until that third act, because it's just more of like a, the pacing reminded me of Swallow, you know. And also, it's also an a, an IFC midnight movie. So that kind of makes sense, because IFC does have a type. But yeah, it was cool. I did like it.
Jacob Davidson:And also, I thought it was interesting that it played out kind of the culture shock, in story, because the whole thing is that the lead character moves to Romania, for her boyfriend, and she's out of place. And they kind of, you know, they just kind of lean into that,
James Jay Edwards:that kind of adds to the gaslighting too, because you're like, well, because also, there are no subtitles. So people will be speaking Romanian around her. And you're basically stuck in her head because she doesn't know what they're saying. And then she'll say, what, what did he say? What did he say? And it's the same thing you're wondering too. So I mean, I'm sure it was a conscious decision to not let the audience into what they're saying. Let's just say unless you happen to speak Romanian, but, you know, that's not one of the huge languages, you know, like Spanish or you know, French that people speak. Unless you're Native Romanian.
Jacob Davidson:Right. As for me, I had a fun time celebrating my birthday this weekend by going to the Friday Night Frights Animals Attacks marathon.
Jonathan Correia:Ooh, what? That's that was one of those secret ones right where they didn't really sell the titles.
Jacob Davidson:Yep, secret 16 And yeah, these were all 16 millimeter movies and we didn't know what we were gonna get. But here's how it ended up. We got the 90s genetically modified dog movie Man's Best Friend, the British killer Bee movie The DEADLY BEES from the 60s. The 90s star studded snake classic Anaconda British Canadian cat anthology or cat ology if you will. The Uncanny the bummer Jaws knockoff from Dino De La rentas Orca and, and a piece and resistance. The one that killed the franchise Jaws The Revenge.
Jonathan Correia:Wow, that is a that is a solid as fuck line.
James Jay Edwards:Yes, it is. Oh, yeah.
Jacob Davidson:No, it was a good time. And we got like pretty much one. Different animals from the animal kingdom in different horror scenarios.
James Jay Edwards:My I haven't seen man man's best friend. But I remember the commercial when it came out. And it used to crack me up because basically what it is is this St. Bernard. I think that the St. Bernard is St. Bernard right.
Jacob Davidson:No, I don't think it's a St. Bernard. I can't remember what breed it is. But he's
James Jay Edwards:a big dog. Yeah. He chases a cat and the cat goes up the tree and everyone's like, Oh, yeah, the cat got away from this dog. Then the dog climbs the tree
Jacob Davidson:genetically crossbred with it. He's got the genes of cheetah so like it's got claws.
James Jay Edwards:So he climbs the tree. And he basically swallows this cat hole.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, because he also has snake DNA.
Jonathan Correia:How many different days or in DNA is are in this in this dog?
Jacob Davidson:Many DNA is like the dog can also pee acid And he's got chameleon camouflage and infrared vision. So it's like just a whole mishmash of animals DNase
James Jay Edwards:so he's part predator and part of Xena morph as well. I was about
Jonathan Correia:to say where did the where does the acid pee come from? What animal does Yeah,
Jacob Davidson:I don't know. It just does zoo ologists
James Jay Edwards:I mean the funny thing about and if I'm remembering this wrong, let me know but there are a couple of kids watching this happened. And kids what is it? Yeah, and so when it eats the cat hole these kids just they go from laughing to like screaming there.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, cuz they're like, Oh, the dog says a cat. Oh my god that dog does well that cat whole
Jonathan Correia:cheese. Oh, see? That's one of those movies that I have on VHS that like I just got in a big box. It just haven't gotten around to yet. And you guys just sold the shit out of it. I'm probably gonna watch that today.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, no, it's a it's a Goofy Movie and it's definitely knows. Like it's when it's being funny. And also, out of all the animals that night. Max the genetically modified dog got the most oz because he's a killing machine. But what you know when he's you know, being friendly. He's he's a cute is a cute puppy. Well, it's
James Jay Edwards:like Cujo is before Cujo gets rabies. He's adorable. Although the movie kind of cheapens it because the movie he gets rabies in the first scene, but if you read the book, there's a whole opening thing where it talks about how lovable and how good a dog he is. And then he gets rabies. So it's almost like Old Yeller. When you're like all this, you know, but the movie starts off with him getting rabies and you're like, ah, you know, there's no, there. They don't try to I mean, you can't really say humanize because he's a dog, but they don't. You know, humanize Cujo, as much as the book does. The book is heartbreaking in that regard. Yeah.
Jacob Davidson:And it sounds like a bummer. But, ya know, some of the other highlights though, it had been, like, at least I don't know, over a decade since I'd seen Anaconda. So that was a fun one to revisit. Especially Jon Voight, you know, just like going as hard as possible as the weird South American hunter guy complete with an accent that sounds like a cross between Tony Montana and strong bed. Because he says, like, the snakes squeeze you and like I love her until your bones explode. And there's just all these shots like it's I completely forgot about this. Just close ups of John void sneering phase, it would just be like, just staring at the screen or stared leering at Jennifer Lopez for like several seconds just being weird.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah, that was that's a weird movie. That was one of those. I somehow found a copy of that on Blu ray at Dollar Tree. So I revisited that during the pandemic and yeah, that's such a it's it's such a fun and weird movie. The 90s were the best for just like, hey, we can do effects now. So yeah, let's do all the creature features again, to various levels of success.
Jacob Davidson:Also, that was my first time seeing Jaws The Revenge and fall. Yeah, and yeah, I can see why it killed the franchise. Because it's like, you got the shark somehow tracking Mrs. Brody and her remaining son and family to the Bahamas. And the shark doesn't really do a whole lot except for like appearing in psychic visions and occasionally attacking them and like a very low body count in this one. And yeah, just say they're in like there. It focuses a lot on the family drama stuff. And also Ms. Brody, starring a romance with Michael Caine who plays a jet pilot named hoagie. And, ya know, it's just a really missed the mark card on this. So now I've seen every Jaws movie on film, one through four, I've seen them all on film now. Good job, but yeah. And yeah, and I'd say probably the other highlight of the night was The Uncanny the you know, because it's, it's an amicus anthology, but well or you know, like post Amicus from the same people but it's all fever on cat so every story is like, cats, you know, again, come up and some people are, you know, causing chaos. And Peter Cushing is really good. And as the framing Narrator guy who's like this conspiracy theorist who believes that cats are evil and like taking over the world,
Jonathan Correia:The Uncanny slaps like that, right anthology film, like it's it's very in that classic Amicus style like Tales from like, their Tales from the Crypt and whatnot. And like, yeah, when Severin put that blu ray out a few years ago, that was an instant buy because it's just so good. It's Gothic and just fun.
Jacob Davidson:Ya know, I love this story where Donald Pleasance plays an actor who kills his wife so that he can get with her younger understudy, and the The cat is wife's cat is like out for revenge against him and kind of like a Looney Tunes Bugs Bunny style, because the cat starts sabotaging his scenes and tries to kill them. So good. Yeah, no, it's great.
Jonathan Correia:I finally watched Studio 666. And I bought it digitally because I wanted to watch it in 4k. And I, I knew it wasn't going to be. I knew it was going to be a comedy, right, like I knew it was going to have that I knew the Foo Fighters weren't actors. I didn't realize that everybody involved was gonna be so aware of that, like, the Foo Fighters are not actors, and they like embrace that full heartedly. And I, like I had, it was one of those ones where I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna like this, but I feel like I'm gonna have to put in a little bit of effort to like, give it a shot. And that movie just stole my heart like it is just genuine and just like goofy fun and silly and ya know, and it made me want to like revisit the Foo Fighters catalogue more like I feel like you know, and then nothing gets a Foo Fighters just never really like deep dove into their catalogue past the first album. So but yeah, no, I it was a lot of fun. The blood was just flooding. humor was on point and yeah, it reminded me a lot of of the old Tenacious D show and like a lot of their things I was a little sad
Jacob Davidson:Dave Grohl was on that !
Jonathan Correia:Right exactly. I could you could kind of tell that Dave girl had either a similar sense of humor or or you know, took what he learned from those guys into this but that was a little sad didn't see them cameo, but yeah, the John Carpenter with J Tro as the engineers was was a lot of fun.
Jacob Davidson:Also, a big fan of Will Forte's cameo as the dweeby delivery guy.
Jonathan Correia:I just Oh man, the ongoing joke about ranch. Like just random shit like that. Just like, Hey, I ordered extra Ranch, you know, close the door and like they kind of find his dead body but not really Dave just picks up the ranch like you could never have enough French. His delivery was perfect. And yeah, it was a great blend of just like super bloody horror comedy with like them just being the most dads rock dads ever.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah. And they definitely leaned into the horror homage is because like there's a whole thing with like the gardener ghost guy who's basically Cropsey from The Burning like he's got the he's got the shears and the hat. Yeah, and there's some gnarly kills in that movie. Like they go for it.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, dude, and the in the chainsaw. And they actually used a song that features chainsaws in it called chainsaw. Yeah, that there were some deep cuts with the music in it, which when
Jacob Davidson:I really dug it, it was kind of like yeah, like, it also reminded me of This Is The End you know, with a bunch of celebrities playing themselves in a horror scenario. And ya know, just it was just them having some fun. Yeah,
James Jay Edwards:another thing that that all three of us have seen and it's going to lead into our topic is on Shudder, The Found Footage Phenomenon. What do you guys think of The Found Footage Phenomenon,
Jacob Davidson:um, I dug it you know, I thought that in terms of documentaries, I thought it was a pretty good dive into the sub genre and good way of kind of examining the history because even talk as far back as Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, since that was presented as journals
James Jay Edwards:and Dracula how it's presented. It's like letters. Yeah,
Jacob Davidson:yeah, yeah. No, so I feel like it was pretty comprehensive and they had a good slate of filmmakers and people within that world to talk with like Dia Dotto, you know, did Cannibal Holocaust and Eduardo Sanchez from Blair Witch Project.
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, the Blair Witch guys, and I was stoked about this. They talked to the Last Broadcast guys who Oh, yeah, supposedly just beat the Blair Witch Project to the punch. And the films are very similar, but it's funny because there was a big controversy at the time that Blair Witch ripped off Last Broadcast, but the last broadcast guy actually says in this movie, he he admits he's like, Look, if you send to monkey or if you send 100 monkeys up a hill with a typewriter, two of them are going to come down with the same thing. So he even says it's kind of a case of spontaneous inspiration that there's something in the air Yeah, yeah, he so he was like, I was actually glad to see that because I feel like and I also feel like that might have been someone whispering in their ears like The Blair Witch Project, rip you off. Because because you know, Blair Witch. I don't think they had enough time to have seen Last Broadcast and then made their own movie. I don't know. I never really bought that it was a ripoff.
Jonathan Correia:I mean, both of them it because that's the thing too, because one of the things I really liked about because I famously I'm not a big found footage horror fan, or just found footage in general. But you know, I've calmed down on my very strong opinions on that over the years. But one of the things that I really liked was that they did go into about how trends and techniques can happen. But when it comes to filmmaking, you can make something and it be completed and it not be released due to, you know, politics, or just studio trends are just someone at the or people just not buying it yet. So there was a few instances where you had, I think they talked to the filmmakers of Apartment 143 and how they use a lot of techniques for found footage and angles and stuff that hadn't been used yet. But the studios purposely waited until more found footage came out so that they could ride that second or third wave of it. And by the time that happened you had because like they made theirs not long after Paranormal Activity came out or two. And then by the time they did oh, wait, no, it was after the first one. And then by the time it came out, like the second one had already come out. And like it was about to really sit around the time of the third. Especially around then because they were pumping out a Paranormal Activity movie. For years. Every
James Jay Edwards:year. They were Yeah, it was like saw they were doing them every year.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah, it was either you're seeing Saw or you're seeing Paranormal Activity. So I really dig you know, when they get more behind with these documentaries when they get more behind the scenes and like how things work. And I really dug how they got into like, yeah, Blair Witch came out, and then no one wanted to try to make Blair Witch even the sequel to it. Yeah, and try to do the Blair Witch. And, and then, of course, they addressed you know, that big shift that happened with 911 and how we had a lot more real life horror coming out on, you know, video cameras and the rise of the internet and how that's all kind of affected it. So I yeah, I'm always interested in more so in the ones that go into why these trends happen, how they happen and like, some historical context to it. More so than just, oh, yeah, and this movie is a part of it. And it's that genre, and it's really good. You know, basically, I hate it when people do documentaries, like how we do this podcast, you know, I need more depth.
James Jay Edwards:You know, it's funny because I love how much time they spent on the pre Blair Witch Project stuff, you know, Man Bites Dog, McPherson Tapes, you know, Cannibal Holocaust Ghostwatch or
Jonathan Correia:even like before all that David Holtzman's diary, the you know, CalArts cinema vert de Arte house movement title that was considered proto found footage, you know, yeah.
James Jay Edwards:I have one bone to pick with The Found Footage phenomenon because they were saying that the original found footage movie was Peeping Tom, and I do not agree with that. Because Peeping Tom, for anyone who hasn't seen peeping tom, it's about a guy who basically attaches like a like a knife kind of a thing to a camera. And his thing is he likes to capture. He likes to kill women. And he captures the moment of death on film as he does it. And sure it shows a lot of the filming he does, but it's not found footage because it's it's just basically giving you the POV of the narrative. So for when they were saying that I was like, no, no, that's not right. But then they say the next one basically is Cannibal Holocaust and I do agree with that. Because even though their narrative parts of Cannibal Holocaust, the whole movie is built around this expedition into into the jungle to find this basically, they're looking for the this last film crew and what they find is their footage. So that's actually kind of the epitome of found footage, honestly.
Jonathan Correia:Well, I mean, it's kind of like when you talk about slashers and proto slashers. You know, you mentioned people tend to mention like Psycho and Texas Chainsaw, which, you know, aren't that full formula because it was, you know, Halloween that established and was ripped off to no ends that the formula, but there were films before that had those elements, so Peeping Tom is not found footage, but you saw the skeleton of it. And yeah, those POV shots because it's a knife at the end of the tripod. So it's like, just out of like at the bottom of the frame. And those scenes are harrowing. Still, it's a beautifully shot film. It ruined his career. But the director
James Jay Edwards:ruined his career because it was too edgy for that because this was just it was X rated. Yeah, this was just before Psycho. Yeah. And it was the British filmmaker Michael Powell. And, and it's just before Psycho so the world wasn't ready for it yet.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. And it's it's one of those cases of those those early violent films that just look too good like Psycho gets away with it. because it's a bit grimy,
Jacob Davidson:and then black and white,
Jonathan Correia:and in black and white, peeping tom, gorgeous colors. And you had and like, oftentimes the victims were like in their bras and like underwear and stuff. So like there was there was a lot of like that, that sex component to the violence to. And it's it's slow. Like it's not it's not a quick slash and run it's you're watching it from his camera as he slowly coming in with that point of the tripod. And so you're just in that moment for a long time. So I can see how that is very shocking, especially to you know, audiences that aren't used to that level of violence on screen. It's
James Jay Edwards:the slow realization by these women that they're being killed. And that's what he's capturing.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, because it's all about fear and voyeurism. Yeah.
James Jay Edwards:If you haven't seen Peeping Tom see it? It's, it's, it's awesome.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah. And on that note, like, I do think it's interesting, they kind of talked into the appeals of found footage. Because, you know, it's like, again, you know, it's a voyeurism thing. It's like, it's presented as real. And it's like, I forget who said it, but somebody put it best. And, you know, that is a lot of the most successful final foot feels like something you should not be watching. And, you know, I think they brought it up at a point with like, Cannibal Holocaust that, you know, like, this is, this feels like something that, you know, that is on the underground and, you know, the modern day, it's like, you know, a lot of it ties into these ideas of snuff films, you know, like record and murders, you know, to seeing the worst of humanity on on record. And, you know, they got stuff like the Poughkeepsie Tapes, and, you know, like, the Unfriended 2 Dark Web stuff. So it's, it's, it is interesting how it kind of plays into kind of the psychological and I guess, maybe moral depths of humanity, because, you know, it's like, well, you know, when they were talking about the post 911 stuff, you know, just we were seeing a lot of footage out of the Middle East, and, you know, like there and then there was the whole debate about torture, you know, as George W. Bush famous said, we don't torture so you know, a lot so combined with Hostel you know, there was a, you know, a lot of torture porn movies, which tied into found footage, torture porn movies, which is how we got stuff like, Hate Crime. The the movie,
James Jay Edwards:The turning point with found footage was obviously the Blair Witch Project. And, and it's funny, because you look at some of the movies that came before it, you know, like the McPherson Tapes, or, or even The Last Broadcast, and they didn't quite catch on. The reason the Blair Witch Project did, and I've said this time and time again, I'll go on, you know, this is the hill all die on the marketing, the Blair Witch Project without the marketing. It's not really that great of a movie, you need the mythology. And they even talked about this in the documentary where I think was, Eduardo Sanchez, built the website, either him or Dan Myrick, one of the two guys built the website. And it, it basically said, you know, this is real, this is our footage, and it went viral, and that the internet was pretty new. This was, you know, 98-99, the Internet was pretty new. So they put up, you know, the mythology of the area, which they had completely created. And then they put up, you know, the story of the filmmakers. And then they, and I remember this, they put up scenes from it. And one of them was Heather's confessional scene. And I remember, at the time watching that, and I was I couldn't sleep that night, I'm a holy crap. And then, at the time, I was active on the snopes.com message boards, which, back then it wasn't so much debunking internet myth says it was more urban legends and stuff. So it was a little more. It wasn't nearly as popular as it was today. So it wasn't quite as as toxic. And somebody there posted the haxon.com website where it lifts the curtain and tells you okay, this is fake. And that's when I first realized it was fake, but holy cow when I thought it was real, I'm like, holy crap, you know, and first thing I was thinking is how they get the rights to release this film, you know, like, are these people's families suing or anything, you know, but but movies like, you know, like, even The Last Broadcast, which was a year before, if they had had the internet push the Blair Witch did it probably would have been a lot bigger or you know, Ghostwatch you know it, you know, they probably would have been a lot bigger. And I still say to this day, there will never be another Blair Witch Project here. You're never going to fool the public like that again. You know, even parents even paranormal activity, which they even say in the documentary, they say Paranormal Activity came out. What was it 2007 maybe enough time had passed that there were enough people who had not seen the Blair Witch Project. So they got some of them. But most people who saw it were like, God, it's just another found footage, you know, I mean, it's scary as hell, but no one's buying that this really happened.
Jonathan Correia:Well and that's and that's the thing too all these titles that we talk about as highlights one of the reasons why they're so popular is because they were one of the first to do it and they were able to convince at least in some part that it's really you know, Cannibal Holocaust because of you know, the time when they discussed this in the documentary with all the footage coming out of Vietnam and the real animal violence that happens early in the film you buy into the you know, the end very much so and no one had really done anything like that before Blair Witch with the with the internet and everything or even Ghostwatch you know, just using the formula of like a news broadcast on the BBC, which is you know, the truth you know,
James Jay Edwards:and it was on Halloween night it Ghostwatch did fool people goes to watch totally cool, but also Cannibal Holocaust fooled people because it was in the actor's contract so they couldn't appear in anything else for a year. Right. And the director had to actually bring the actors out of hiding because he got put on trial for murder and he's like No, they're not dead here they are.
Jonathan Correia:Well, and Blair Witch did the same thing to only not a full year I think it was like a couple of weeks like two weeks after the the actor started doing the circuits
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, because then Yeah, cuz then they all started doing the promo for it. But yeah, they for and I remember this actually kind of gave me chills at the time when you would look at Blair Witch on IMDb behind each of the actors it would say deceased after their name. And I remember just going Holy crap, that's really spooky. Because at this point, I knew it was fake. But I'm like do someone at IMDb is either doesn't know it's fake or is with people yeah
Jacob Davidson:well, I was also going to add what really helped the Blair Witch Project was that they it just yeah, they had a media storm I guess it like because there was also the documentary about the Blair Witch Project Curse of the Blair Witch which aired on TV like kind of a in search of documentary and yeah the website which had all the lore and a lot of the history of the Blair Witch Project so you know, they were able to create this weapon and clandestine Lee you know, like have all this mythology released online and on TV so you know people learn a little bit more a little bit more so yeah, it just really hooked people in
James Jay Edwards:Yeah, they I think it snowballed when you know when hype started building about the film and then I remember at the time that it sold it was the most profitable I want to say independent movie but it might have been the most profitable movie ever made in terms of percentage of how much it costs to make versus how much it actually made at the box office you know, when you do the percentages? I think it was at the time the most popular movie ever made or the the most profitable
Jonathan Correia:until Paranormal Activity with paranormal activity
James Jay Edwards:thrown it okay.
Jonathan Correia:Oh yeah, do that movie was made for like next to nothing pretty much and was shot on weekends, you know, using, you know, consumer grade cameras and that's the thing to is found as much as I have a not fan of found footage as I am I do respect the hell out of the use of technology. And that's always been when you get the next wave is when there's a new technology that comes out to make it more real like a new consumer grade camera or you know, something along those lines is generally what pushes it so like, you know, Paranormal Activity was you know, kind of hitting around that time when people started putting cameras up around their house you know, just to have because they became more readily available and whatnot. And if you look at the Paranormal Activity movies they keep evolving with that you know, whether it's security cameras and the second one or the third one when they go back in time with the VHS tapes you know, which was i I still respect the shit out of them putting a fan the fan bit was
James Jay Edwards:so good it's so and they use it so well yeah
Jonathan Correia:and then they fail so miserably in the fourth one with that fucking X box can
Jacob Davidson:just dating which
Jonathan Correia:there was some effective moments with that and was really cool seeing like you know the finger come up with the green dots but it was also the cheesiest fucking it it just reminded me of like the Wizard when he's like, I got the Power Glove, you know?
Jacob Davidson:But that wizard
Jonathan Correia:but that's the thing about found footage is It's that constant convincing you know, or at least that trying to feed into that narrative that this is real you know, this is happening. So the second you see CGI, you're kind of taken out of it. And I think the only film that's effective and like not really in like portraying that it's real but not really caring is Troll Hunter because Troll Hunter like the CGI is a bit rough. for that movie that it always has been, it doesn't matter because it's done so well. Like I think when I saw Troll Hunter in theaters, I compared it to watching Jurassic Park for the first time. And just like believing that these giant, you know, mythological creatures, well, Dinosaurs aren't myths, but you know what? Genetically created dinosaurs as much as modern mythology are real. And that was really cool. And I think we're seeing the next wave of found footage being these tech horror movies. Jacob, you already mentioned Unfriended Dark Web, you know, we got the Unfriended series, we got Searching and Host because like, they're not found footage. No one's finding the Zoom recording of these people who had a seance? You know, we're supposedly watching it in real time, or as it happens with a lot of these. So, I mean, it's not found footage, but it is still I would I would put those in a similar genre at least just saying that like, you know, they're they're trying to use technology to feed you know, the narrative that this is real this happened.
James Jay Edwards:I would call it found footage just because it's the name of the genre. And it's not, it doesn't necessarily mean that oh, this was found under this tree buried in the woods. No, I mean, I like like, movies like Mungo lake, or Megan is missing. There. They're flat out documentaries. But I think their found footage to just because that's the name of the genre. So I would call it found footage. But the interesting thing about once Blair Witch Project was so profitable. I, the market was flooded with found footage, movies flooded, and you had to wait. I'm a sucker for found footage movies. But I have to admit that I see more bad than good. Because I'll always watch them hoping to find the next good one. And they are more bad than good. Because anybody can make them. You know, I mean, any you. We all probably have the equipment. I mean, you could make one with your iPhone. I think it was the McPherson Tapes guy who they talked about. He had just graduated from film school. And his friend is like, oh, I want to invest in your movies. Oh, great. Great, how much you got and his friends like $5,000 He's all I can't even rent a camera for $5,000. But he, but he's like, okay, the only way we're going to do this for this money is using a camcorder. Yeah, and that's what he did. You know, and, you know, he was able to, you know, make the McPherson Tapes for that, which, you know, I think Blair Witch was made for even less, like, well, less than that. Yeah, it wasn't Blair Witch made for like, like 600 bucks or something like that. I mean, the most expensive thing was probably the processing for the photo or the Yeah, the actual film.
Jonathan Correia:Well, and that's and that's the thing too, is that film footage, or film footage found footage. It's a double edged sword because they said it really well in the in the documentary that there are big budget found footage shows or movies or big budget movies that utilize the found footage format End of Watch, Cloverfield. I'm surprised they didn't bring up what was the what was a superhero one?
James Jay Edwards:Chronicle
Jonathan Correia:Chronicle? Yeah, it didn't mention that one. But they use the format, but you'll never get that like sense of real because obviously, it's not real. If it's Jake Gyllenhaal, running around, you know, with Michael Pena, you know, so
James Jay Edwards:it's everything they said that they're more effective if you have unknown actors. Yeah. And no money. Yeah, they basically put them into two categories. There's the big budget ones that aren't trying to fool you. And then there are the other ones that are trying to fool you, which Jacob brought up Hate Crime earlier. And that was one that I actually, from seeing this this documentary I track it's on Tubi I actually tracked it down because it interested me and basically, it's about a Jewish family who's celebrating one of the kids birthdays and then three Nazis break into their house. It's like a home invasion movie and they're the camcorder from them doing the birthday party is still running the whole time. And I mean, it's pretty flawed. You can tell that it is I mean, like when they tie up the family the ropes are all loose and you're like you could get away you could get away but it's one of those ones and this is the most effective found footage is and Blair Witch does this to where it starts right at the there's no title card, and then the title card comes at the end. And what they do with hate crime is they say, this take this camcorder is found at the side of the road with this tape in it. And you're like, you know, and that's when you start going. Okay, this is now creepy. You know? What do you think maybe it was real. Now, this post Blair Witch Project, so it doesn't really fool anyone. Yeah, but just the fact that you're like, Okay, this and the director even said and found footage phenomenon. He said what he basically shot in Hate Crime because he's because he's Jewish. He's what I shot was my nightmare. You know? And you're like, Okay, you know, this is yeah, I mean, I can see that would that situation would be absolutely horrifying. Yeah.
Jacob Davidson:And there was a lot of those, especially around that time that kind of focused on societal fears and less the supernatural and like, I guess, man's inhumanity against man, like, the big one they focused on was Michael Gois, Megan is Missing, which he said, you know, he was just inspired by watching, you know, news reports about abductions and you know, Stranger Danger online. And
James Jay Edwards:what really inspired him as a friend of his own, like a forbidden image website kind of thing, right? And yeah, got one of the images at the end. One of the images that they show the actress in Megan is missing, he said that that basically is that that's inspired by an image, it was shown to him by his friend and his friend showed him and he's like, You got to go to the cops with this. And he did. And it turned out that it was an actual girl who had been abducted and murdered. So and that was the inspiration for it. So you know, when they say based on a true story for Megan is missing, you know, Megan is missing is I don't even have kids. And it affected me so hard that the last 20 minutes of it is just heartbreaking. Have you seen it Correia?
Jonathan Correia:No, I It's been on my Vudu for a while now. So yeah, I know. I didn't watch a lot of found footage before. Was it just the documentary going off, but I did buy a VHS of The Last Broadcast. So I'm looking forward to watching that for the first time.
James Jay Edwards:last broadcast is it's very Blair Witch. It's about some guys who go into the woods to hunt The Jersey Devil. Basically, I think they call it something else. But the Jersey devil. But it's I mean, it's pretty good. It's like, it's sort of like a true crime thing. You know, they're trying to track down what happened to these guys. You know, there's actual voiceover narration and they talk about, you know, stuff. But the last act gets a little film school Lee.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. But I mean, going back to what I was saying about the double edged sword of found footage is your you have to make it cheap. You have to make it with unknowns both in front and behind the camera. Because, you know, M.Night Shyamalan's The Visit. And besides, you know, the amazing Kathryn Hahn, you know, had like a bunch of little known or unknown actors in it, but still the entire time you're sitting there going, it's a Shyamalan. It's a Shyamalan film. So it's not going to sell it as real. But the problem is, is when you go to low budget, or you go, you know, to unkowns, you get you get those little you get the unrefined mistakes that won't help sell it, you know, and I think that's, sometimes it works in its favor, like paranormal activity, you know, where it's just like, oh, man, this was just so rough made and rough put together that like it helps sell it, but sometimes it doesn't. Because sometimes you're just like, I you know, I love the McPherson Tape movies, both of them, but like, especially the second one, I'm just like, oh, man, the acting is a little rough, and this. And it's a double edged sword. Because it's a lot of work people, you know, there are certain things that you can do on the cheap and have it be effective. But it's kind of like, whatever I get the argument from musicians who want me to direct a music video, which happens every now and then I don't know why, but I've made a few, but they're not that great, but, and they go like, Oh, I have $500 Let's make a thing. And it's like, cool. We can go out there with an iPhone and shoot you rapping at the camera walking down the street for the entirety of the song. And we can make it look cool doing that and all that. But it's also been done before. And so how effective is it going to be if it's been done before, and with found footage, also, you do still have to have a basic understanding of filmmaking, you still need to know how to light things to be able to see it with found footage, the camera is not only capturing what's there, but you're also acting with the camera. So you're asking the cameraman to do multiple jobs, ie make sure that you know you're capturing what needs to be captioned, but also emote with the camera. It's it's a really, and I'm glad that they got into this in the documentary that it is a hard dance to do.
James Jay Edwards:Camera is a character.
Jonathan Correia:Yeah. And, and it's and it's rough. Because sometimes when you don't have that money or the knowledge on how to do stuff, you lose out on things. Like I will admit, I re operated a camera on a found footage film as my senior thesis with a group of other individuals and we made it on the cheap it was like less than 10 grand. And we had some like really cool stuff, but it was hard because you know you're fighting certain things like I was like, Oh, dude, we gotta light up this hallway more so that we can see what's going on with so we can see, you know, the creepy ghosts and stuff that's happening in there like No, no, it's just gonna happen. You know, we can have it be in organic places. No, no, we can and then you get to post and it's like, oh, we can't see anything. And it's like, well, you can always darken the image you can't bright you can't pull light out of it. And so that's that's one of the things that ends up being real rough. And I also find that a lot of found footage films don't know how to end, and it's understandable because you're trying to sell that it's real. There's there's two things I always can take you out of it is why is the cameras still rolling? And then how it ends. So there's ones like the devil inside. I think we're just suddenly cuts out
James Jay Edwards:and it actually says on there for the rest of the story go to this website. Is that the one? Yeah, I
Jonathan Correia:think so and
James Jay Edwards:like, oh my god and now the website's not even there anymore.
Jonathan Correia:But like, it makes sense that you would write that it would just suddenly cut out like, you know, just be unfinished. You know, it's kind of like, when you watch you know, it's 3am and you're watching dashcam footage and like, you miss a certain part because it stopped recording, you know, the, the, the cameras stop, and like that happens, but that's not satisfying for a movie goer because you need a third you need that third act you need that climax you need that. That ending and but like, so like, I don't fault them in sticking to the oh, this is real because it cut out footage. It makes sense. It does. But like, storytelling 101, you need an ending, you know, so like, it's it's a double edged sword of just like, Yeah, you got to make it first low budget and make it as real as possible. But also you have to have, you know, the necessities of making the film and the storytelling and the pieces all there. And so when people pull it off, it is impressive as fuck. I mean, Bobcat Goldthwait with Willow Creek is absolutely phenomenal. In that, like, three quarters of the movie is just a couple fighting there. So
James Jay Edwards:it actually seems like like something you would see in like a vacation film. Yeah,
Jonathan Correia:exactly. And then so then when you start getting the vocalization from the Samsquanches out in the woods, it is you you can there's a part of me that's like, oh, that's just Bobcat out in the woods. Go. But also, it's terrifying. I grew up in the woods, man, you would hear weird shit all the time. We had Fisher cats, they sound like crying babies. Imagine just being in the pitch dark and just hearing a baby cry out in the distance. It's terrifying.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, no. And Willow Creek has one of the best scares of any found footage movies very brilliant. Just that long, long take that just goes on and on. It just keeps on building the tension. Like the it's like six or seven minutes long.
Jonathan Correia:Oh, in the tent.
Jacob Davidson:Yeah, the tent
Jonathan Correia:with the vocalizations. And then like the rustling of the tech. We've all been there. We've all been camping. And there's like Recan's outside raccoons just like fucking around with the camp. And like, it's terrifying when
James Jay Edwards:they go into it in the documentary. But the bottom line is you need an idea. You need not only a story idea, but you need to an idea of how to present it because they say more than one filmmaker that they talked to said there's got to be an organic reason for the cameras to be rolling. And that's what you got with with Blair Witch because they were making this movie. Now granted, when they get lost. Would you actually keep rolling the fan? The camera? I think it was a therapeutic thing. So I buy that they do. But you know, they what else are you gonna do? You're lost in the woods. You know, let's roll film. But yeah, I think that's what you know. And the thing about found footage, and let's let's end this with, I want to give a shout out to the guy who makes the Bad Ben movies. Because the thing about found footage is anyone can do it. And this dude, I mean, these movies are not great. You know, they're borderline not even good. But the fact that basically one guy does these things, and I think there's seven or eight of them now. And a lot of them are the same sometimes. You know, they're, I think that he just keeps going back for more. But he can do that because he's doing them himself. He's not he doesn't have to hire a crew. You know, he acts in him. He shoots in the Edit somebody scores them. He's like one dude. So I mean, hey, hats off to that, dude. All right. Final Thoughts on found footage?
Jacob Davidson:Well, I feel like this is not the end of found footage. You know, that. This is a sub genre that reinvents itself and keeps on going like, you know, we got Dashcam coming from the Rob's Saverage guy that did Host and I actually saw that out of panic fast enough. I was pretty fun. And yeah, and then you got all the creepy pasta subculture stuff recently, which I feel kind of builds on that. And, and even possibly, if you counted, We're All Going to the World's Fair. Kind of hits a lot hits a lot of those spots. So I feel like you know, found footage never dies. It just advances.
James Jay Edwards:Oh, yeah, it's not going anywhere. Because it's so cheap to make that Yeah, I mean, seriously, that's what it's so cheap to make people and especially now that you don't really need a big studio to release your movies. You know, you anybody can get a movie. Be on Amazon and that's how I think the bad bad guy does it. So yeah it's not now whether or not all these movies are getting made or good that's another thing because you have to found footage is one of those genres that because anyone can do it it's so diluted with crap that you have to wade through the crap to get to you know to get to the corn I guess that's kind of a gross way to put it but I
Jonathan Correia:I view Yeah, have you found footage as I do yeah, undead and I say on dead because you know vampires and zombies both same, but found footage undead movies and Christmas movies they will come and they will always be a constant stream of them. There will always you know, be an oversaturation almost I think found footage will have more like dips and bends. But like that's kind of the they're always going to be made because they can be made so cheap. And they're you know, with that, but the cool thing about found footage shows is, like we talked about is that it's always attached to technology in some way. And so the second we see some new technology out there, there's a found footage film that incorporates it as part of it, you know, and I think, yeah, the the new tech horror with Searching, We're All Going to the World's Fair with the creepy pastas. I'd like kind of the next evolution of that. So I think it'll be interesting to see how people where people go with it now whether it's, you know, maybe we'll start seeing long format, you know, narratives via livestream, you know, found footage style, that could be the next next big thing. I don't know, but I anyway, either way, you're right, there is more crap out there. So I'm going to keep being a bit hesitant. But uh, you know, when when found footage works, it works. It works good. So like I you know, I always love a good good scare.
James Jay Edwards:Cool. Let's let's leave it at that. So, um, our theme music is by restless spirit. So check them out and our artwork is by Chris Fisher. So check him out. You can find us on any of the socials at Eye On Horror or@ihorror.com So let us know what your favorite film footage movies are. Let us know you know if Am I wrong? Peeping Tom is not the first found footage movie, let me know and please watch the bound footage phenomenon even if you're not that into the genre. It's one of those movies Korea and I were joking about it earlier. It's one of those movies where you're watching it and it gives you ideas of stuff you want to see like i said i watched hate crime after seeing you know found footage phenomenon. He went and got that. That one student that what is it Jonathan or VODs diary. You know if you're
Jonathan Correia:so close, David Holtzman Holtzman, David Holtzman. Yeah,
James Jay Edwards:it's such a weird name. But anyway, yeah, it you know, it's one of those movies that you always you know, you're gonna go away with something that you want to see from it. So it
Jonathan Correia:and again, I'm someone who just in general does not like found footage films, but this documentary is fucking awesome. It definitely did not convince me to watch this movie. But you know, they're definitely highlighted a few that like I've needed on my radar, like David Holtzman diaries, and the last broadcast, so you know,
James Jay Edwards:man bites dog?
Jonathan Correia:No, I've seen now on Yeah. That's such a twisted movie.
Jacob Davidson:At the end of the day, it's a very educational documentary on
James Jay Edwards:Yes. Yeah, very much. And it's cool because it's not just it's not like like the title says it's more of just it's more than a genre. It's a phenomenon. So there you go. And that's where we'll leave it so. So check out The Found Footage Phenomenon on Shudder and we'll see you in a couple of weeks. So funny. James Jay Edwards.
Jacob Davidson:I'm Jacob Davison
Jonathan Correia:and I'm Jonathan Correia. Keep your Eye On Horror.